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jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

2003 TD5 wouldn't accelerate and now won't start

Hi all

I'm looking for some pointers on how best to work through a non-start problem, and best areas to tackle first.

Symptoms/Issue:
Driving one day, changing up into 4th and/or 5th it would start to drop back on power, unable to accelerate. 1st/2nd/3rd was ok - managed to get home in 3rd. Next day checked ECU connector and it had oil in it (I had previously changed injector harness over a year ago). Cleaned ECU connector etc., left them disconnected and hanging for a few days. Connected everything back and it started ok (usual slight sluggish cold morning start) - took it for a short spin and it was now struggling to accelerate in 3rd, eventually 2nd and eventually went into a bare limp home mode until I got to small incline near home and it it just stopped altogether - wheeled it to side of road, and came back an hour or so later, and it started and rev'ed ok and managed to get last 300m home in 1st. But now it will not start at all, it's turning over but won't catch. Battery is ok, showing just under 12v when trying to start. Tried usual 5 depressions of accelerator to purge etc. Haven't had enough time to spend on it yet and trying to determine next best course of action.

Have a iCar LR v1.0 diagnostics unit and it shows
- Driver Demand error logged (this has been there before)
- Gearbox/ABS output error logged
- CAN error (active I think)

- (not relevant) front right abs sensor intermittent (I'll tackle that when I do the brake discs after this issue)

Other things I've noticed
- I think fuel pressure regulator is potentially leaking - have bought a repair kit from eBay for that just to rule it out - would that cause a non-starter?
- Crank sensor is showing around 200rpm when turning over via the diagnostics unit
- Cleaned MAF, MAP sensors
- I ordered a new wiring loom for the throttle pedal to ECU off eBay also - given the driver demand issue
- Fuel pump is whiney, always has been
- Fitted a new non return valve last year to filter housing.
- Ordered new washers/o-rings for injectors

I'd like to do any work in order to make sure I know what has caused the issue, so wondering if anyone can recommend best priority or any other thoughts?

Thanks for reading!

8th Mar 2024 4:10pm

Procta

Member Since: 04 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 4937

check the loom on the crank senor loom, for breaks and maybe buy a cheap crank senor just to see if that fires. Also check the relays for the pump too.

Also i wouldn't rule out the fuel pump mind, Mine had the same issue, with loss of power and miss firing. Turned out to be the fuel pump dying. When me and my dad dropped the tank, it was still making the noise, but not as loud. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!

9th Mar 2024 9:36am

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

Thanks - will check the crank sensor loom, hopeful to get time on it this week.

I checked the entry pipe into the fuel pressure regulator while pump was running and there was a decent flow of diesel, so I'm hoping it's not the fuel pump. But will check relay's etc anyway.

11th Mar 2024 11:00am

MadTom

Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 572

Look here - http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=62029 - how to test in tank fuel pump from electrical side - noise from pump is nice indication, that it runs, but it is not enough to be sure, that it delivers enough fuel.
I had twice broken pump in Discovery 2 - first only one stage was bad - car was running nice, but with reduced power (max. speed droped from 160 to 140 kph - I was brave that time), but the car was not possible to purge after opening fuel system. Second time, it was totally death - worn brushes. Car was still running, but only to 30 kph, and when climbing small hill, it was down to first gear. Second pump was 3 month old, some aftermarket. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo

11th Mar 2024 11:49am

jim4244

Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 634

1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green

If you do need to replace the fuel pump then this is the easiest and neatest way to do it. I followed the instructions a few years ago and the job took me around 1.5 hours.

https://www.defender2.net/forum/post823648.html#823648

Jim

11th Mar 2024 12:08pm

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

Thanks @MadTom - I've registered on that site to read the post.

And thanks @jim4244 - I've seen that post, and definitely will go that route, as dropping the tank looks like a lot of work for one person

11th Mar 2024 6:07pm

Procta

Member Since: 04 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 4937

jasryan wrote:
Thanks - will check the crank sensor loom, hopeful to get time on it this week.

I checked the entry pipe into the fuel pressure regulator while pump was running and there was a decent flow of diesel, so I'm hoping it's not the fuel pump. But will check relay's etc anyway.

It might not be getting enough pressure to start it, My peugeot 306 HDI, had a fuel pump failure. What happened there, was the ECU saw the fuel pressure dropped, below what ever pressure it supposed to read, Threw the car into safe mode, then as it got worse, it shut the system down. It fired over and ran with some easy start, to get it away, but as soon as you revved it, as my dad decided to do, it just cut and wouldn't start at all.
Same maybe going on with the fuel pump, my TD5 was miss firing like hell. My dad said that is running on four, and it smoking like hell. We were doing the brakes at the time on it, and i changed the fuel filter on it, just rule out something daft in there, and you couldn't hear anything priming, but did the process anyway, it started ok. But then just cut out altogether. That's when we found that the fuel pump bit the dust. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!

13th Mar 2024 10:56pm

MadTom

Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 572

Just for info - TD5 has not any fuel pressure sensor. So in case of low pressure, there is no way for the engine ECU to know this problem.
And one small experience - Defender TD5 runs with nearly empty fuel tank, but to prime the fuel system, 20 l of diesel in tank is not always enough. We had to add fuel from jerry can, and all started to work again. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo

14th Mar 2024 8:18am

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

Great tips so far, thanks folks - just need some time now to spend on it! Will report back as I work through it.

14th Mar 2024 8:41am

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

MadTom wrote:
Look here - http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=62029 - how to test in tank fuel pump from electrical side - noise from pump is nice indication, that it runs, but it is not enough to be sure, that it delivers enough fuel.

Fuse 10 is the suggested fuse to check, but I'm guessing that's different in a Disco2 versus a Defender? Anyone know which fuse is correct for a defender fuel pump?

No fuse diagram I have identifies a fuel pump fuse (besides the relay under the drivers seat)? Looking through the Haynes manual I can't see one mentioned either

14th Mar 2024 3:40pm

4RF RDS

Member Since: 19 Jul 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 898

2000 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Epsom Green

Under seat fuse 4

Click image to enlarge 2010 Range Rover MkIII Autobiography Super Charged (Idris)
2003 Range Rover Mk III (Desmond FitzWilliam)
2000 Defender 110 CSW TD5 (CTX)
1992 Range Rover Classic (Lizzy)
1972 Series III 300 Tdi (Stanwood)
1967 MGB GT

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

14th Mar 2024 6:35pm

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

Thanks a mill, just double checked the Haynes and realized I’d missed that

14th Mar 2024 8:45pm

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

Checked fuel pump fuse - got 21.2mV across the fuse, which seems in range.
Checked crank sensor - loom seems fine, there was oil in the connector, so cleaned that with electrical cleaner (it's an awkward spot!)

Holding out hope its the FPR is the problem, waiting on the repair kit still. That'll be the next step.

15th Mar 2024 5:18pm

mturri

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Patagonia
Posts: 29

Check condition of fuel pump relay (C0730 on below snap).
Ran into same scenario, relay & socket had partially melted, additional resistance starved fuel pump so loss of power and the rest of it.
Had to reterminate socket and obviously replace relay.
The AC relay on the left side (C0019) is the same type so a straight swap for troubleshooting purposes.

Click image to enlarge

If no obvious power issues then fuel pump becomes prime suspect.

Fuel pressure regulator also possible culprit though any issues tend to be there all the time, plus fuel leakage from around it is usually a tale teller.

Mechanically assessing fuel pressure is another way to troubleshoot fuel delivery issues, whether FPR or fuel pump originated.

See here https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/dev...re.125166/

HTH

Matt 24 yrs of Td5 ownership
D110 Td5 MY06 fully tuned up
ex-D2 Td5 MY04 Auto
ex-D110 Td5 MY00
ex-D2 Td5 MY00
ex-D2 Td5 MY99
ex-D1 300Tdi MY89
ex-D90 200Tdi MY87

15th Mar 2024 8:26pm

jasryan

Member Since: 27 Feb 2024
Location: Cork
Posts: 14

FPR done and unfortunately still won’t start.

My relays don’t look like those in the picture at all, I only have 3 there, two yellow, on black.

Not sure what my next steps are now, I guess it could still be the fuel pump. So maybe I have to bite the bullet and cut the hole in the back to have a look.

23rd Mar 2024 3:36pm

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