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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5331

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Grabbers, Nokians... and use of ceramic grease

After my original SVX Dual Tone wheels (plus the bag with nuts and locking nuts) with the original General Grabber TR on them which were stored at home for the winter were stolen back in January, I have first been toying with the idea to replace these summer combos with gloss black HD Wolf wheels which are now available from Land Rover as an official Defender accessory (VPLDW0095PVT), plus the new BFG All-Terrain T/A KO2 which will become available here in Europe as of July. I do like the black Wolfs on the SVX, I have them on my truck in the winter with Nokians, not the gloss version, but the satin black version.

Then a few things happened, a friendly member on here told me that it would be a pity to keep the SVX not original, my local tire shop said that their experience with the current version of BFG All-Terrain lately had not been so good after BFG some time ago changed the compound composition, and a local friend of mine who also drives a Puma said that he recently had been driving a truck in the USA with the present BFG All-Terrain, and they were pretty noisy on tarmac....
So, decided to stay original, the insurance reimbursed full price of new SVX wheels, nuts, locking nuts set and tires, so ordered 4 new Dual Tone wheels, and then the problems started to get hold of the General Grabber TR.....

It took me a while to find out if those tires are still manufactured by GG, but that seemed to be the case, only they are not imported into Switzerland anymore, so my tire dealer could not do anything. They contacted the Swiss importer/distributor, and the answer was that only a few other models of GG tires, not suitable for a Defender, were still imported here.

I did get in contact with a nice gentleman at Conti tires Germany (Conti are the owners of GG), his name is Matthias Stemwedel, e-mail address: matthias.stemwedel@conti.de , and this gent was extremely helpful.
Long story short, while the Swiss importer had told me that they would try to make a special import of 4 GG TR tires from Germany, but that there would be extra costs involved with such a one off special order , Matthias very quickly despatched 4 GG TR to the importer, and confirmed to me that there would be no extra costs at all. Within a week, including the Easter long weekend, I got a phone call from Pneus Claude here in Geneva confirming that my tires had arrived. When I went back to Pneus Claude they said that next time that they again have a special customer request which they cannot fill themselves, they will call me for help. Laughing
But seriously, if anybody in a European country has a similar issue with availability of GG tires, contact Matthias. Thumbs Up

I also had researched a bit about the best grease to isolate steel hubs from the alloy wheels, and that appears to be not copper slip, but Ceramic Grease which is totally metals free, etc. Could not find it that easily here, but was able to order a can from amazon.de.

On friday the guys at Pneus Claude seeing the Defender forgot all about the Beemers, Eewoks and other high end cars lining up for their winter/summer wheels change, and went out of their way to do a good job on the SVX.
They cleaned up the hubs, removing virtually all remaining copper slip which had been on with the winter Wolfs, and they nicely sprayed the ceramic grease, prior to starting the fitting, balancing and mounting, followed by a final clean up.
Here are a few picture of the process....

New Dual Tone wheels ready to go.

Click image to enlarge


Truck with Wolfs removed and some ceramic grease already added to the front hub.

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Detail of the can of ceramic grease and a nice bag provided by Pneus Claude for storing the winter wheel nuts.

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Spraying ceramic grease.

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Continental Tires did a perfect job delivering a set of GG TR which were like a still warm fresh bagette just out of the oven in the morning. Thumbs Up Production date week 08 of 2015, fresher production is hardly possible.


Click image to enlarge


New Grabbers being installed on rims

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All 4 Grabbers easily balanced. Max weight needed on either side was this 40gr.


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Wheel balanced and ready to be installed. I asked to put 2.1 bar front as recommended by Land Rover and 2.9 bar for the rear tires. (Land Rover recommend rears at 3.3 bar for light loads, but I find that much too harsh a ride)


Click image to enlarge


The Wolfs with the Nokians were a just fit in their wheel/tire washing machine, so all 4 Wolfs went thru that water and plastic pellets laundry, which removed most of the remaining copper slip.


Click image to enlarge



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The finished product back home.


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From now on our other set of wheels (this time the winter wheels) will not be stored home anymore ,but will remain in storage at the tire dealer, until the next change in October.

Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
And oops, the front mirror fell off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw


Last edited by ericvv on 14th Oct 2015 5:40am. Edited 5 times in total

Post #415382 11th Apr 2015 12:44pm
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shaggydog



Member Since: 12 Aug 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 3212

United Kingdom 1991 Defender 110 200 Tdi USW Arles Blue

Fantastic write up Eric I really enjoyed that Thumbs Up

Looks great too, I agree with whoever it was who persuaded you, those Dual finishes look fantastic on your truck Very Happy Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197

Self confessed mileage hunter Very Happy

Post #415388 11th Apr 2015 12:59pm
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Lambley



Member Since: 20 Apr 2013
Location: Mid Devon
Posts: 1434

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Java Black

The Swiss garage looks much cleaner and tidier than my local fitter Thumbs Up

Post #415391 11th Apr 2015 1:09pm
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bpman



Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: in the woods
Posts: 8012

looks as good as new Thumbs Up cheers, BP Man

Post #415393 11th Apr 2015 1:24pm
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mikeh501



Member Since: 07 Jan 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 873

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 90 V8 Petrol SW Alpine White

So is ceramic grease better than copper?

Post #415466 11th Apr 2015 6:09pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5331

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

Mike, I started searching the topic after 10 days ago or so I mentioned to the dealer of Madame's car (a VW) something about using copper slip when they would install her summer wheels, and they said no way. They are using this ceramic grease for that purpose. Below is one of the many discussions I found on the subject. Sounds all pretty plausible and logical I think. Found several more discussion threads which all take the same position. With my new wheels, I am rather safe than sorry. The guys at Pneus Claude who did the Defender wheels also approved of the ceramic grease I brought along, even if they themselves were using a different neutral grease (they showed me their spray can and remember that grease was blue color, but can't remember exactly what it was), but surely they also would not touch copper slip at all.
Eric
http://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk2/thread/1256568010.html You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
And oops, the front mirror fell off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw

Post #415490 11th Apr 2015 6:53pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5331

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

One question which I forgot to ask. My tire fitters torqued all wheel nuts upto 150Nm. Is that about right?
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
And oops, the front mirror fell off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw

Post #415682 12th Apr 2015 12:59pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: huddersfield
Posts: 6242

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey

133nm according to the handbook Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html

Post #415696 12th Apr 2015 2:21pm
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

England 

ericvv wrote:
Mike, I started searching the topic after 10 days ago or so I mentioned to the dealer of Madame's car (a VW) something about using copper slip when they would install her summer wheels, and they said no way. They are using this ceramic grease for that purpose. Below is one of the many discussions I found on the subject. Sounds all pretty plausible and logical I think. Found several more discussion threads which all take the same position. With my new wheels, I am rather safe than sorry. The guys at Pneus Claude who did the Defender wheels also approved of the ceramic grease I brought along, even if they themselves were using a different neutral grease (they showed me their spray can and remember that grease was blue color, but can't remember exactly what it was), but surely they also would not touch copper slip at all.
Eric
http://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk2/thread/1256568010.html


maybe they should read the coppa-slip data sheets

corrosion resistant - complete in 10% hydrochloric acid and saturated salt solutions Whistle

. COPASLIP® consists of micro-sized particles of copper in a semi-synthetic base. To these basic anti-seize ingredients are added highly effective oxidation and corrosion inhibitors.

and its been used for what 50+ years on wheel hubs and brakes , so cant see it being that bad

Post #415698 12th Apr 2015 2:33pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5331

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

mk1collector wrote:
133nm according to the handbook


So that makes it 10% more then. Not too excessively bad I guess.... You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
And oops, the front mirror fell off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw

Post #415705 12th Apr 2015 3:05pm
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TJ101



Member Since: 30 May 2007
Location: Taunton Somerset
Posts: 3541

Isle Of Man 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
Re: New Grabbers... and use of ceramic grease

ericvv wrote:

So, decided to stay original, the insurance reimbursed full price of new SVX wheels, nuts, locking nuts set and tires, so ordered 4 new Dual Tone wheels,
Eric



Thumbs Up No brainer really,, had to be on a set of Original rims California F1, RR TDV8 VogSE, 90 V8 Hybrid, 55 Series 1

www.wessex4x4response.org.uk

Post #415736 12th Apr 2015 4:54pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5653

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

I'd have put the grease on the wheels - that way you are ensuring 100% coverage of the contact patch and not putting it where it will do no good on the wheel hub.

Post #415779 12th Apr 2015 6:57pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9603

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

munch90 wrote:
maybe they should read the coppa-slip data sheets

corrosion resistant - complete in 10% hydrochloric acid and saturated salt solutions Whistle

. COPASLIP® consists of micro-sized particles of copper in a semi-synthetic base. To these basic anti-seize ingredients are added highly effective oxidation and corrosion inhibitors.

and its been used for what 50+ years on wheel hubs and brakes , so cant see it being that bad


Munch I agree wholeheartedly no point pressing this but I know what I will continue using. There has been no evidence to back up why Copperslip with the relevant inhibiting agents should not be used apart from conjecture, hearsay and repetitive strong opinion. Pleased your happy with your grease Eric, either way it's better than nothing as previously stated.

Nice read Eric and lovely truck, the protectors on your new rims before fitting were good too. I hadn't seen that before with any of my wheel purchases.. Thumbs Up If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

Post #415793 12th Apr 2015 7:16pm
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

England 

My comment was not against eric using ceramic grease , more for people who think coppa-slip is so bad Thumbs Up

Post #415801 12th Apr 2015 7:47pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9603

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

I know and still I agree! Those who 'think' it's bad are doing nothing else but 'thinking it's bad.' Laughing Thumbs Up If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

Post #415837 12th Apr 2015 9:27pm
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