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Pam W



Member Since: 25 Oct 2011
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1169

England 1998 Defender 90 Td5 SW Auto Oslo Blue
If the driver refuses to drive the vehicle in an unsafe condition, then gets fired they can take the employer to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. The HSE would probably be very interested in the case also.

An employer cannot fired someone for NOT committing an criminal offence, which is would be if he drove the vehicle. In Health and Safety terms in addition to RTA, the employee cannot be sacked for refusing to do unsafe work, which again it would be if he knowingly drove an unsafe car. If they are sacked then, as I say, they would have a legal framework to help them.

Easier said than done, I guess, to refuse unsafe working conditions, but far better to get home safely to your family, with a clean driving licence! Our blog - http://landytravels.com/

Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net
Post #169404 19th Sep 2012 9:21pm
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Pam W



Member Since: 25 Oct 2011
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1169

England 1998 Defender 90 Td5 SW Auto Oslo Blue
But on the original issue, I too would be perfectly happy to be stopped for this sort of check.

Here in North Yorks, we don't have fixed speed cameras and it has been shown that the roads are just as safe, if not safer, by using mobile camera vans and routine spot checks on problem roads. Proper policing for the correct reasons (ie. not just to make money). Just hope that now we are getting elected top bods at the police that they won't press their own personal agendas and ruin what has been a good system. Our blog - http://landytravels.com/

Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net
Post #169406 19th Sep 2012 9:24pm
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IanW



Member Since: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 172

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Zambezi Silver
Defective tyres - its actually three penalty points per tyre rather than two. The defect could be less than 1.6 mm over 3/4 of the width of tread, or a cut, or a structural cord exposed, or very wrong tyre pressure. One wife - livid
Post #169414 19th Sep 2012 9:37pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Pam beat me to it..... If you refuse to drive because the vehicle is unroadworthy and the boss fires you there is a lot of money comming your way.

If you drive a vehicle and it is unsafe or unroadworthy. It comes down to you.... not the boss who sits in an office and hasn't seen the vehicle for 3 months.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #169467 20th Sep 2012 6:19am
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Landlord



Member Since: 27 Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 582

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Td5 HT Cairns Blue
Glynparry25 wrote:
Pam beat me to it..... If you refuse to drive because the vehicle is unroadworthy and the boss fires you there is a lot of money comming your way.

If you drive a vehicle and it is unsafe or unroadworthy. It comes down to you.... not the boss who sits in an office and hasn't seen the vehicle for 3 months.

Glyn Dog Sheep


Think you'll find it makes no difference. Boss has a duty of care to ensure vehicles are road worthy and legal. He would committ the offence of Cause or Permit, whether he has seen vehicle or not.

I run a fleet of vehicles and chek them fairly regulary. Although I insist the drivers check tyres, windscreen washer fluid, fill out log books etc, it's like talking to a brick wall !

In a previous life I may have had dealings with this sort of thing Whistle 2007 TD5 90 Hard Top
Post #169469 20th Sep 2012 6:52am
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MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey
JWL wrote:
I must admit I quite welcome this sort of action as opposed to sitting waiting for speeders and other soft targets. A large physical prescence I feel is more of a message to those that can't be asked to comply by the rules like the rest of us. If you can't afford to put your motor on the road legally then stop buying your cans of lager and bottles of cider, stop smoking packets of fags at, what are they about 7 for 20 Buying a scratchcard every day would more than pay for my insurance. If the car is a necessity then the scroats have to go without, like the rest of us to make sure we do things properly.


Agree Thumbs Up

There was a similar roadblock on the A9 near me a couple of weeks ago. This was the result:

Quote:
Tayside Police and VOSA crack down on motoring offences on the A9 Inverness-Perth Road, has revealed that off the 759 offences detected throughout the 10 day period of the enforcement, all but 72 related to speeding. All of the 687 speeding offences appear to have related to driving in excess of the speed limit and only four offences related to Careless or Dangerous Driving.

Speeding 687

Mobile Phone Offences 33

Overloaded Vehicles 11

No Insurance/Driving Licence/MOT 8

Driver's Hours Offences 7

Crossing Solid White Lines 6

Dangerous/Careless Driving 4

Defective Tyres 2

Seatbelt 1



As the police look at a line of vehicles coming towards them, they seem to home-in (as you would) on the cars that stand-out. By stand-out, I mean front fogs on, badly adjusted lights, headlamp out, noisy exhaust, old & rusty car etc... Every year the police do morning breath tests on the main roads into Edinburgh, a friend's wife was stopped a couple of years ago for driving with front fogs on, after a lecture, it was obvious the copper was getting his nose as close to get as possible to check her breath for alcohol.

I have no problem with this, I drive legally (well, usually Razz ). If someone does nick my vehicle, or drive illegally so as to be a risk to others, I hope the cops do catch them... Thumbs Up Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Post #169471 20th Sep 2012 7:11am
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3140

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
Glynparry25 wrote:
Pam beat me to it..... If you refuse to drive because the vehicle is unroadworthy and the boss fires you there is a lot of money comming your way.

If you drive a vehicle and it is unsafe or unroadworthy. It comes down to you.... not the boss who sits in an office and hasn't seen the vehicle for 3 months.

Glyn Dog Sheep


From a truck driving point of view you would need a huge payout as you would almost certainly never work again in the industry. Too many people, too few jobs, employers won't give a job to a "nark". I get this myself, I might think a tyre doesn't look too clever, or whatever the issue is, and you always know the bosses will say "nah its fine". Its the driver who loses out, not them. Sad
Post #169499 20th Sep 2012 9:53am
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mrandmrsh



Member Since: 31 May 2010
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 692

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black
leeds wrote:
Is there any way of reporting vehicles with defective tyres?


From the West Yorkshire Police website
The Filth wrote:
For non-emergencies dial 101 - In an emergency always dial 999

Be interested to know if anything happens

Regards
Craig 2015 110 USW XS in Santorini with premium contrast leather seats in tan/black, black headlining and with Dual Finish alloys (in the garage, now on Wolf rims with Goodyear MT/Rs)

2012 '62' 2.2 X-Tech 110 USW now gone ...
1984 90 soft top with full roll cage, 200 tdi engine etc now sold
2012 USW XS 2.2 "FUU" now gone....
Post #169506 20th Sep 2012 10:35am
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scotty38



Member Since: 21 May 2011
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 571

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
Don't get me wrong I know the difference between wrong and right and understand the sentiments expressed on this thread and who should do what etc etc etc but as they say

Let he who is without sin.......
Post #169522 20th Sep 2012 11:28am
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JWL



Member Since: 26 Oct 2011
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3443

England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 SW Coniston Green
I will admit to driving offences when I was young, no insurance and bald tyres. The only speeding offence I've had was in my current Defender on the A38 in Bristol but what I will say that when I grew up, even more so when I had kids I realised that 90% of the offences that are flouted are plainly dangerous and can have such huge consequences on your life and the lives of others.
Post #169531 20th Sep 2012 12:34pm
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scotty38



Member Since: 21 May 2011
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 571

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
JWL wrote:
I will admit to driving offences when I was young, no insurance and bald tyres. The only speeding offence I've had was in my current Defender on the A38 in Bristol but what I will say that when I grew up, even more so when I had kids I realised that 90% of the offences that are flouted are plainly dangerous and can have such huge consequences on your life and the lives of others.


Very true and in these cases you were responsible for your own actions. What we're talking about here is grassing people up for offences when we don't necessarily know the circumstances. Yes, they may be fully aware of what they're doing but then again they may not (no excuse in the eyes of the law, I know that) so reporting them and them possibly ending up with no job etc may not be the way to go about it.

Like I said if people are completely without any previous, no matter how small, then fire away and grass them up. However if you feel that strongly I'd have a word with the bloke in question first. Who knows he may even thank you for it, you may get a punch in the mouth too but who knows....
Post #169535 20th Sep 2012 1:18pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8578

United Kingdom 
Some interesting comments.

People may or maynot accept responsibility for their actions.

But what about the innocent victims of the consequences of their actions?

Over recent years a lorry with defective brakes killed 6 innocent people.

4 children die due to defects in car.


Now would those people still be alive if someone had 'grassed' on drivers/owners.?


Defective tyres don't kill people?


According to tyre safe an average of about 35/year and over a 1,000 casulties per year.


So is it a case of 'grassing' or social responsibilty?


Brendan
Post #169541 20th Sep 2012 2:46pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19615

United Kingdom 
Another thing to add into the mix - IF you knew of a defective vehicle yet didn't report it due to the person involved and then they / it had an accident and seriously hurt or killed someone could you live with yourself knowing previously the vehicle was defective? Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧
Post #169542 20th Sep 2012 2:57pm
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scotty38



Member Since: 21 May 2011
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 571

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
Of course nobody wants to turn a blind eye to a problem that results in innocent, or otherwise, people coming to harm. I'm not saying that, what I am saying is there may be other ways of dealing with it rather than going straight to the police and causing someone a whole heap of trouble that could have been avoided.

On the flip side I wouldn't want to be responsible for putting a man out of work and not being able to support his family by grassing him up if I could have achieved my desired result by having a word with him.

Every situation will be different and will need to be judged accordingly, I just don't think reporting it to the police should be the default action. I would welcome a neighbour telling me about my bald tyre rather than me getting the police knocking on the door but then I like to think I'm a reasonable person.....
Post #169546 20th Sep 2012 3:21pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Not to be funny but if your job is to be a professional driver it encompasses everything. This includes the condition of the vehicle as you leave the factory, yard or home.

People mention losing your job because you refuse to drive a unsafe or illegal vehicle and therefore unable to earn for your family. What if you cause an accident that kills several people.... take the court fees, the time in prison and the fact you will never be able to drive again never mind do it for a job. You can then add the family shame, abuse etc to it!!

Yes that is the extreme outcome.... on the other hand, you get pulled and get say 6 points for 2 unserviceable tires and add a hefty fine to that. Then explain to the boss why you have them.... personal vehicle insurance goes up and there is the possibility of the company saying you are too high a risk. Either way it is a lose-lose situation.

Heck you could even go out and replace the tires on a van for less than the resulting fines!!!

A vehicle can be a device of life or death just like a weapon if not treated with respect and not following the safety rules.

I think it comes down to personal integrity and courage at the end of the day,
Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #169584 20th Sep 2012 8:21pm
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