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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8578

United Kingdom 
mudrut wrote:


It's worth noting that because of the compressor, the Engel has smaller requirement for startup current. I've found that the 15 amp startup current of the Waeco/ARB can expose limitations in the wiring of some vehicles. All the fridges settle down to draw an average of less than an amp once underway.




Interesting figure for start up current, Ian. Where did you get that figure from?

We have both the Engel MT45 and ARB 47 and have used both extensively

Just had a quick look in the ARB manual and the inline fuse is 8amps, whereas the Engel one is 10 amps according to our manuals. .

Those figures would suggest to me that the Engel has the higher current draw then the ARB.

When comparing the Engel MT45 with the ARB 47 please remember that the Engel MT45 is a 40 litre fridge whereas the ARB 47 is a 47 litre fridge.


Brendan
Post #132363 18th Mar 2012 7:18pm
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shazzy90



Member Since: 17 Dec 2010
Location: tyneside
Posts: 489

i have the national lunar and would recomend it over the rest
Post #132376 18th Mar 2012 8:20pm
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Go Beyond



Member Since: 30 Jan 2012
Location: Headcorn, Kent
Posts: 6676

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I had a second hand 40litre Engel for a couple of years and despite it being dented and probably 10 years old it performed faultlessly. They are very 'basic' with just one numbered dial and as has been said you have to manually adjust it to maintain a constant temperature dependant on volume of contents. Not really a problem but not very accurate. You can use it as a fridge or freezer but not both (although that's not strictly true as I have heard that you can use layers of cardboard to keep stuff at the bottom frozen and stuff at the top chilled)

As the Engel was sold on with the vehicle I replaced it with a National Luna weekender. This is an entirely different 'beast'. There are two compartments, the main fridge and a seperate freezer (which is from memory always kept at 10 degrees below whatever you dial in to the fridge temperature). There is a full battery management panel built in giving you various alarms etc. All in all an excellent bit of kit BUT the mistake so many people make is they buy 'too big'! The weekender is massive and takes up a big chunk of space and to be honest unless you are actually overlanding when are you going to need a freezer. Given the choice I would go for the smaller, simpler Engel just for size and simplicity.
Post #132386 18th Mar 2012 8:49pm
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Zagato
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Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
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Great, so that's the fridge sorted for Billing chaps Very Happy Next on the list is a nice big awning Steve, a Foxwing will do, oh and some decent chairs, were going to need a big table and about three of those Bar-B-Q's we had on the plains - that should sort it Thumbs Up Laughing
Post #132391 18th Mar 2012 9:01pm
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Go Beyond



Member Since: 30 Jan 2012
Location: Headcorn, Kent
Posts: 6676

United Kingdom 
Talking of awnings, not vehicle based, but freestanding, take a look at the Coleman Event Shelter, what an awesome bit of kit for the money, ideal for Billing
Post #132392 18th Mar 2012 9:07pm
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Zagato
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Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
Posts: 4990

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Good tip, they look great, good size, good price Thumbs Up

http://www.worldofcamping.co.uk/coleman_ev...fAodiRrLHg
Post #132395 18th Mar 2012 9:14pm
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BigMike



Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
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Or get an iron man and save some money. Same compressor, same factory
Post #132410 18th Mar 2012 9:35pm
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Go Beyond



Member Since: 30 Jan 2012
Location: Headcorn, Kent
Posts: 6676

United Kingdom 
BigMike wrote:
Or get an iron man and save some money. Same compressor, same factory


Can you point me in direction of spec / where to buy please
Post #132417 18th Mar 2012 10:02pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8578

United Kingdom 
West coast 4x4 are Iron man importers, website HERE

Ironman fridge details HERE


rendan
Post #132422 18th Mar 2012 10:19pm
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bpman



Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Zagato wrote:
Great, so that's the fridge sorted for Billing chaps Very Happy Next on the list is a nice big awning Steve, a Foxwing will do, oh and some decent chairs, were going to need a big table and about three of those Bar-B-Q's we had on the plains - that should sort it Thumbs Up Laughing


National Luna looks to be favorite at the moment.... no rush and it's not all about saving money

Not sure I will have time for Billing this year.

Awning - in the bag

Chairs - looking at "kingkong" ones Brendan sells.
Post #132465 19th Mar 2012 9:02am
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Landyrob



Member Since: 07 Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 93

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Alpine White
Engel is my choice anytime, had mine running 24/7 ( on a IBS dual battery system) 4 months in Australia never had a prob, and very important they take little power from the battery. LANDROVER Defender Best 4 x 4 x Far
Defender TD4 90 Hardtop 2.4
Defender TD4 110 Hardtop 2.2
Post #132689 19th Mar 2012 10:36pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8578

United Kingdom 
I have asked both the Engel and ARB fridge importers into the UK what the start up current for their respective fridges.

Was very impressed with the speed of response from Engel in Australia.

On start up the Engel MT45 draws 3 amps on start up.

The response from ARB took longer, (basically due to question sitting around UK office for a day or two). Response from ARB was much more detailed.

Quote:




The nominal current published on the 47L fridge (5.1A) is the maximum current that the fridge could draw. This figure must be published by law but it is not an indication of the current drawn by the fridge during normal operation.

Any fridge with a reciprocating compressor will have an initial startup current. This current will be higher than the normal operating current but will only last for a very short period of time (milliseconds). Once the compressor is nearing its operating speed, the current will be greatly reduced. The compressor in the ARB fridge has a soft start feature so the ‘start up’ peak current is significantly less than for other reciprocating compressors.

It is important to use the correct gauge of wire between the battery and the fridge. This is not because of high current draw but is to minimize the voltage drop. This is to ensure that the customer can achieve maximum run time out of their fridge. (Often OEM wiring for cigarette sockets is fairly poor for running anything of value and hence the ARB fridge wiring loom.

Here are a few comments about power consumption:

There are many ways to describe the power consumption of a portable fridge. Some manufactures quote current draw in Amps, others quote power in Watts and some quote average power consumption in Amp Hour. Amp Hour is a useful measurement because it considers the efficiency of the complete fridge system by calculating the total energy used by the fridge over a 1 hour period. If the amp hour usage is averaged over an extended period of time, for example 24 hours, the average energy usage of the fridge will be determined.

Manufactures that quote average power consumption in Amp Hour will also quote the ambient and cabinet temperatures under which these values were recorded. This is important because it allows the user to reference these figures back to real life conditions. This average Amp Hour value can be combined with the Amp Hour rating for your battery. This will allow you to make an informed estimate about how long your fridge will run for under known ambient and cabinet temperatures from a particular battery

Some compressor fridges have higher current draw than others but they also have a greater cooling capacity. This high cooling capacity, along with an advanced control system and good insulation mean that the compressor will run for a shorter period of time. This means that the average power consumption of these fridges (in amp hour) will be less than other fridges of an equivalent size. For such fridges, it is important that the wiring between the battery and the power socket are adequate to ensure optimum performance of the fridge. In many modern vehicles, the factory wiring of accessory sockets is not adequate for this task.



So basically with both the Engel MT45 and the ARB 47 litre fridge neither are anywhere near the claimed 15 amps .

As the ARB engineer says it is important to ensure that the vehicle wiring is adequate for the job in hand!


Brendan
Post #134277 25th Mar 2012 4:09pm
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mudrut



Member Since: 01 Mar 2012
Location: Stourport-on-Severn
Posts: 80

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
You see what happened? I did a quick post, quoted an off the cuff figure and made myself look dumb. Embarassed

To put it in context, some years ago, we were trying to fix a troublesome Waeco installation in a vehicle. Fridge worked fine off a battery, voltage present at socket, alternative (Engel) fridge worked fine in car. Obviously, we suspected the vehicle wiring and voltage drop. Problem was, the manufacturers quoted figures weren't accounting for the problem. So, we tested the startup current with surprising results. Admittedly, it was instantaneous, but it was enough to stall the fridge.

I note that the ARB guy is saying that they have soft-start built into their units to mitigate against this effect (and, for all I know, Waeco perhaps do too nowadays). Anyway, I shouldn't have generalised between the two brands - sorry! Smile

All I was trying to do was highlight a potential issue as important - and that is that even with soft-start, the Danfoss units do draw a higher startup current and that can expose limitations in the wiring system that the Engel would put up with.

I will now go and get my coat - well, a fleece too as it's quite parky over here at the moment. Big Cry

regards


Ian
Post #135000 28th Mar 2012 11:36am
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Pam W



Member Since: 25 Oct 2011
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1169

England 1998 Defender 90 Td5 SW Auto Oslo Blue
Not got around to fitting our 47l ARB in the Land Rover yet - needs all the battery stuff doing - so Dave found his Australia - to UK mains adaptor and we finally gave it a test, plugged into 240V in the living room.

Ambient temp 18-20 degrees. Set temp at 4 degrees and it got down to that in about half an hour and it switched its pump off. VERY quiet running I must say. Had it on all evening and it has only come back on to re-cool twice - and one of those was after we opened the lid and wafted the cool air out to get it to react ! Must say impressed with the insulation.

Hopefully will get it fitted in the vehicle soon and run it properly on 12V.

The way the lids works is also fab!

But so far big Thumbs Up
Post #135295 28th Mar 2012 10:40pm
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bpman



Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Pam W wrote:
Not got around to fitting our 47l ARB in the Land Rover yet - needs all the battery stuff doing


I can recommend the BlueSea Controller for battery management, well made, solid and totally un-complicated / fancy. Has a reassuring clunk when the relay engages and is rated to 500amps.

Leeds and MobileCentre sell them Thumbs Up I posted up some pics a couple of weeks ago on here.
Post #135331 29th Mar 2012 7:32am
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