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| Green Machine Member Since: 19 Nov 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1226   
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Hello everyone. Firstly, this post has nothing at all to do with Land Rovers, apologies in advance! Secondly, it is very lengthy, so either grab a cuppa and a biscuit, or perhaps bookmark it to look at when you have the time (if it is of interest to you).
It strikes me that we have a great, friendly, supportive community here on defender2.net (one that I have been part of for many years) and this post could perhaps serve to help someone within our def2 community, or a friend or relative of someone in the community, who may be struggling. Just as every person on the planet has ‘physical health’, everyone also has ‘mental health’. This is a topic that affects everybody. Yet we are far better at talking about, and dealing with, physical health issues than we are mental health issues. This is changing (very slowly), but the issue remains that our society simply doesn’t have the same level of experience, knowledge or resource for dealing with mental health issues as it does for physical health issues, and this leaves people suffering. I am not a doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist or counsellor. I am just someone who has experienced a thirty-five year life of suffering from problems with my mental health, specifically chronic anxiety, and would like to extend my support to anyone else who is suffering, or who knows someone who is. I make the early comparison between physical and mental health, because I think it can serve as a really useful starting point to consider how we address mental health issues. Imagine that you break your leg (some of you may have had this experience!). You would not question for a moment the idea that you need to go to hospital to get your leg fixed. You instinctively know, along with those around you, that a broken leg requires professional expertise to be successfully treated. We treat the majority of physical health conditions like this. We have some basic knowledge and understanding of what we should do to treat them, and where to go for help. But, things are not like this with mental health conditions. We don’t have the same familiarity with them. We don’t have the same ‘instinctive’ knowledge of what to do about them, or where to go for help. You wouldn’t break your leg and think to yourself: "well, this is very painful and is making it extremely difficult to live my life in any sort of enjoyable way, but I will just continue on with it and hope it resolves itself" And your friends, family members and colleagues wouldn’t witness you hobbling around with a broken leg and just act like everything was normal. They would be telling you to get yourself to hospital (or taking you to hospital) to get expert help. And yet, when it comes to our mental health, this is so often exactly what we all do. Because we don’t know how to deal with it, we instead try to just ignore it. Taking the ‘ignorance is bliss’ approach. Sadly, just like in the case of ignoring a broken leg, this often only serves to make things worse. What we need to do instead, is bring these issues out into the open. It is only through openly talking about them, sharing our experiences and knowledge, that mental health issues can begin to share the same level of status as their physical health counterparts. But there is a problem. People who are suffering from poor mental health don’t want to talk about it! There are a wide range of reasons for this, but one of the greatest is the sense that it is in some way an admission of weakness. That by revealing that we are struggling internally in some way, we reveal to the world some terrible flaw within ourselves. But, in fact, all we are really doing is revealing our humanity. Human bodies are complex things. They break. They go wrong. And, just as you can inadvertently break your leg, you can also experience ‘breaks’ to your mental wellbeing. And, just as with the broken leg, you are very unlikely to be able to successfully repair that break on your own. The single most important thing with beginning to address mental health issues (in my non-professional view), is connection. I know from my own experiences that there is a huge tendency for those who are struggling to isolate themselves from the world. They disconnect from the world around them, because they perceive that the world is painful to them in some way and they don’t want to experience it. It makes sense that we try to isolate ourselves in an attempt to keep ourselves safe. But, unfortunately, this actually has the opposite effect. The last thing that someone who is struggling with their mental health needs is to spend more time alone with themselves and their thoughts. Imagine being trapped in an abusive relationship with yourself. This is the lived reality of many people suffering with mental health conditions. To share a little of my own experience, in the hope that someone may find comfort in knowing someone else has been through the same thing, I have suffered from extreme isolation and loneliness as a result of my struggles with anxiety. I started living on my own at the age of 26, when I first bought my own house, and it would be entirely normal for me to not see or speak to another person from leaving work on a Friday evening, to starting work again on Monday morning. This is not good for you. It’s not good for anyone. As humans we are social creatures. We are designed to interact with each other. But when you are suffering with poor mental health, you simply don’t want to engage with other people. For me, my anxiety makes me extremely wary of being around other people. I don’t like it, and so I try to avoid interaction with others as much as possible. This makes seemingly simple, everyday tasks like going food shopping or attending work meetings very uncomfortable and difficult. And when you are struggling with this day in, day out, for years and years and years, it takes a toll. And this constant inner turmoil, the feeling of always being ‘on edge’, of never being able to relax or properly calm down, can make you feel extremely miserable. After years of struggling, I became quite severely depressed and demotivated. I just didn’t want to do anything. I didn’t want to experience anything. I just wanted to sleep. I remember thinking that I would be so happy to just go to sleep forever, because then I could finally relax, rather than go on experiencing the constant, endless distress of daily life. I don’t share this with you to depress you, or try to elicit your empathy, I share it with you in an effort to convey the severity of what some people; people you may know, are going through. Because to the outside world, I probably looked fine. I was in my late twenties / early thirties. I was probably above-average in terms of general health and fitness. I didn’t smoke, didn’t drink, didn’t take drugs. I had a good job, had a mortgage, owned two cars. By all of our societal measures of ‘doing OK’, I’m pretty sure most people would have classed me as doing more than OK. But internally, nothing could have been further from the truth. I was totally and utterly miserable. In the end, with some assistance from a therapist, I decided that I needed to change my life. I needed to take action to get out of the situation that I was in. So I quit my job. I put my house on the market and moved all of my belongings into storage, and moved back in with my Mum and Dad. Aged 34! That was in August last year. You might be expecting some great climactic conclusion of how I have ‘turned my life around’, but sorry to disappoint, there isn’t one. It has been a real struggle. I suffered a total mental breakdown after I had moved out of my own house. I think this was probably largely due to giving my mind the opportunity to do it - once I wasn’t working and didn’t have a house to look after or daily life to deal with, it saw its opportunity to take a break, and it took it! I have been seeing another therapist closer to where my parents live, which has been a huge help. I have sought help from the NHS, which was a bit of a mixed-bag, including trying anti-depressants (which I discovered were not for me, but I fully understand could be a great help to others). I am still unemployed, which isn’t ideal, but I am starting to look at jobs again and make applications. I have been doing a lot of reading, listening to podcasts, and learning about the underlying causes of the mental health issues that I experience, which has been an enormous help. I have gained a huge amount of insight and knowledge into myself and why I think and feel in the ways that I do, which I wouldn’t have found out about had this not happened. The point that I am trying to make, is that poor mental health can affect anyone. Just as anyone can break their leg, anyone can suffer with mental health issues. It is not our fault. It is not a weakness. It is part of being a human. Our complicated, finely-balanced, human system can go wrong. If you are reading this and find it very relatable, or are going through something similar yourself, then you have my deepest empathy. Just know that you are not alone in your struggles. There are many others (like me) who are going through the same thing alongside you. And there are people out there who can help. If you feel that you can, please reach out to someone. A friend, a relative, a colleague, or if you don’t feel comfortable with any of those, then your GP or a private counsellor or therapist (I have linked a website below where you can search for local therapists). I completely understand your fear of judgement. But remember that all you are admitting to is being human. And everyone already knows that about you anyway. Don’t suffer in silence. You have far too much to offer to the world to allow yourself to be ignored. I promise there are people out there who love you. You probably don’t believe me, but I’m telling you it’s true. If you are reading this and think: "hmm, I don’t think this really applies to me - I generally feel pretty good about myself and about my life in general" then I am really happy for you, and the fact you haven’t had to experience the misery of suffering from a long-term issue with your mental health. But, please spare a thought for those who are suffering, and if you feel like you have the capacity to reach out to someone who you think may be struggling; please, please, please do so. Those who are struggling are far less equipped to reach out to you, than you are to reach out to them. I know it’s hard. I know it feels awkward. I know you don’t want to have the awkward conversation. But if any part of you feels able to do it, then please do. When you are at your lowest, trapped in the darkness of your own mind, the positive impact of someone reaching out to you and offering their hand in support is immeasurable. Just the simple fact of knowing that someone is thinking of you can make an enormous difference. I cannot tell you the number of times that I have sat at home, on my own, lost in my anxious thoughts, hoping that someone would get in touch with me. That someone would reach out and try to connect with me. If you can, then please, please, try to connect. Even if it is just a text or an email, it can make a massive, massive difference to someone. Maybe you are aware of someone in your life who you know is struggling, or someone who has just ‘been a bit quiet’ lately. Maybe a colleague who isn’t as upbeat as they usually are, or who has been regularly turning up late for work or taking a lot of days off. Or a friend or family member who hasn’t been around much lately, who has missed a few social events. Please, if you feel you can, reach out to them, Make the connection. It can literally just be a two-line text message. That can be enough to open the door. If you think they might be suffering, don’t let them suffer in silence. This is especially the case for anyone that you know who lives alone. People who live alone and have mental health issues are really vulnerable to getting themselves into a really bad place because they have no distraction to ‘jolt’ them out of it (I know this from personal experience). If they get into a negative thought pattern, they have to get themselves out of it on their own, and that is very difficult to do, especially if you haven’t been given the skills and knowledge of ways that you can do it. So please, once again, if you can - reach out and try to connect with them. One little text is all it takes. Thank you for taking the time to read this post, and I really hope that it may have helped someone in some way. If anyone would like to reach out to me about any of the things I have mentioned, or to ask for any advice for themselves or a loved one, then I am happy to be contacted by PM. As mentioned, I am in no way a mental health professional. Just someone who truly knows what it is to suffer with poor mental wellbeing. My own experience is with anxiety, so that is the area I am best placed to offer any suggestions or advice. Hopefully this may provide a small platform within the def2 community to allow people to share their own experiences and support, or share knowledge and assistance. Finally, a couple of really useful resources for anyone who is struggling: https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/ A really useful database of counsellors and therapists in the UK, which I have used personally a couple of times to find local therapists. Under the ‘Find a Counsellor’ section you can refine your search to include specific struggles and certain types of therapy. It can be a really helpful starting point to find what sort of help might be available in your local area, especially if you don’t want to go down the GP / NHS route. https://www.mind.org.uk/ Many will already know about Mind, but some may not. Their website is a great resource of information about mental health conditions, which can be really useful for friends or family members of someone who is struggling to gain understanding of their condition and some ideas of what they might be struggling with (especially if they are unable to explain it to you themselves). And for anyone struggling with anxiety specifically, or who knows someone who is, I can thoroughly, thoroughly recommend the work of Russell Kennedy MD. You can find him on Instagram as @theanxietymd where he posts some really useful information about the condition of anxiety. He also has a podcast and a book, both titled ‘Anxiety Rx’ by Russell Kennedy MD, which again have been hugely helpful to me and I think would really help anyone suffering from long-term chronic anxiety. Russell presents a very different approach to understanding and healing anxiety, which has been a real game-changer for a lot of people. Thank you, Tris. 2005 Td5 | 90 Station Wagon | Tonga Green |
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17th Feb 2023 2:02pm |
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| Farmerben Member Since: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 605 
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Well said Tris. Incredibly brave to put yourself out there and sure someone reading this will feel a bit less alone because of it.
Suicide is the biggest killer of men under 45 and men are 3 times more likely to kill themselves than women. Being a farmer, I have lost count of the number of fellow farmers around me who have killed themselves - one whose funeral was only a couple of weeks ago. The "man up" mentality can be incredibly toxic and is what stops people from trying to get help. The more everyone talks about it and normalises it, the more likely people suffering will ask for help. https://instagram.com/bentheoandrews |
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17th Feb 2023 3:04pm |
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 822 
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Mental health Is so important and as (Mostly) men its hard for us to open up.
I had a rough experience with PTSD and guilt a few years ago. For three years i suffered sleepless nights, anger issues, and subconscious suicidal thoughts (i kept doing dangerous stuff that was going to get me killed). Drinking was a major issue... I opened up about it one day and felt like a weight had come off my shoulders. Don't get me wrong i still think about it a fair bit it's still upsetting, but it doesn't bother me as much as it did. I sleep a lot better but still have issues where i can wake up from the slightest input. But overall on the up and up. Or at least I thought i was doing ok.. Fast forward to june last year - my birthday more specifically, i decided to treat myself to a walk through saint james park and treat myself to an icecream. Sods law the card machine was broke and I don't carry cash, guy serving me had already put it in the cone. He gave it to me free of charge without knowing it was my birthday. So I sat down and watched some goslings enjoying my icecream. Then It occurred to me this was the first good thing that happened to me in a long time, by a long time I thought long and hard - I couldn't/ cant remember the last good thing that happened to me before that. Imagine that your life is so bad that the first good thing to happen to you is not to be charged £3 for a '99. Last year I split with my girlfriend of ten years, quickly fell into a relationship with a colleague and left my old job to have the relationship openly, the new job which sucked and felt it wasn't going to work out. Neither the new relationship or Job worked out. I never realised how bad things had got for me. i feel a sense of impending doom, i'm fast approaching 30 & I haven't spoken to a woman who Isn't a colleague or a family member for going on nine months now. Problem is all my mates are either getting married & having kids so really don't have the time for me anymore. I've never used internet dating or speed dating or anything like that but might give it a bash in the summer. I think loneliness coupled with hopelessness is the main reason for men under 45 doing the unthinkable, just the other day someone was on the edge of lambeth bridge thinking about doing it. But then there's probably one a week out there. Overall though I think now that i realised how bad things got with everything going on around me and looking to improve my mental health. I've been taking the scenic route to work along the Thames every morning, taking time and doing the things I love, and looking at things i want to do in the future. Slowly building a computer (my first), looking at giving the defender a makeover, Trying to get my fitness in check and just generally getting out a bit more. just learned the Tiger moth club is a few miles down the road, and been looking at getting a harley MT350 and assorted license etc and do a few excursions. I think the reason i go on is the fact I have a mentality, no matter how bad things get, All i think about is how I will put my helmet on, head down, and push forward into the future. If you're at your lowest you can only go up from there. But I think my mentality and my resilience is a rare one, I work hard, bury myself in my work. I'm not sure if its a blessing or a curse, but a comment i've had on me is that one minute I scowl, looking furious or grimm. But you tell me a dad joke and no matter what you get a little grin out of me. Life is hard, tough and not everyone is dealt good cards, all you can do is play the hand you're dealt as best you can, and await the next hand. You're not in this alone, millions if not billions of people get crap cards, many people put on a brave face, others cope with it, and others can't. I Hope that by vaguely sharing this with you chaps you'll realise this and realise help is out there. So get it, see a GP, Councillor, HR department, Family, friends, pets or even an internet stranger. The first step to a better tomorrow is realising you need to see someone. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html  |
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17th Feb 2023 11:38pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1395 
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A lot of people don't realise how many of their friends, colleagues and acquaintances have had similar struggles with mental health, because most don't openly talk a out it. Once they are aware of a problem, those same people will usually help in any way they can. That may be advice, a frank and open admission of their problem or a few quiet words of support. Just knowing you're not the only one can go a long way.
Every situation is different and getting help when you need it is important, as is making positive changes to your life. Things will, and do, get better. |
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17th Feb 2023 11:42pm |
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| Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2079 
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Spot on. I can’t really add any more other than the more we talk about it, and the more we support each other, then the less of a problem it may become.
We ALL have mental health just as we all have physical health. Some people thinks it is binary and that you are either fully sane or completely mad with nothing in between. My physical health doesn’t work like that so why should my mental health? Personally I’ve struggled with both for a few years, and talking about it does help. There’s far more support now but still a huge stigma - but it’s getting there. Thankfully my Landy helps improve my mental health👍 |
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18th Feb 2023 9:14am |
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| Cragster69 Member Since: 15 Jun 2021 Location: Scotland Posts: 191  
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I was pushed by my wife to attend a Men's retreat. To help me deal with my ingrained Scottishness of repressed emotions and negativity.
https://www.mantramenswork.com/ The idea being that through the different sessions, ice baths, breathwork and talking to other men openly you can identify problems, triggers and a way forward. Biggest thing for me is identifying my purpose. I met lots of men from very different backgrounds and was amazed at how many of them were experiencing the same issues. I was a bit sceptical about so e of the more woowoo aspects of it but having tried the breathwork, it's amazing and the results increase everytime. I've met an amazing group that I can ask questions and be offered advice and guidance (sound familiar) and help and support where I have had a similar experience or sometimes just to provide a listening ear. The Mens Council idea comes from the tribal elders who would sit round the fire discussing the problems facing the tribe and provide advice and guidance to the younger members. Something that has been lost. Although this Forum is a great example of how something similar can work virtually. My friend Paul wrote the piece below for someone he knew who was close to the edge. Hopefully it helps someone else. https://lambie.substack.com/p/incompatible Self Improvement and Land Rovers are very similar, it's never really done. Craig. “Don't believe everything you read on the internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln www.scotgrc.co.uk |
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18th Feb 2023 10:30am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149 
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Great post and many very relatable aspects. I'll try to be brief.
My upbringing was extremely traumatic due an abusive father. "Thankfully" "only" psychological. Never had any sense of self-confidence, still living with what is essentially complex trauma due to that. Then had a string of relationships which were again abusive. Sadly its taboo to state that women can be abusers too but I'll say it anyway. Several of them had affairs, were violent, etc etc. Last one was basically robbing all my money, maxed out my credit cards, had an affair etc etc. I attempted suicide not long after she ended the relationship. Eventually took her to court and at least got some of the money back, but that was of course extremely stressful. Since then I've been able to buy myself a small house, do some travelling and progress my LandRovers. But I've not been in a relationship since 2016. I'm 42 in May and having to seriously accept I'm never going to be a father. I've tried dating apps etc but never got any matches. Well actually I got one but she ended up ghosting me. So aside from the occasional date or messaging there has been nothing. I often get home from work and sit wondering what the bloody point is. I've been having therapy for about two years now. It's useful at least to get stuff off my chest, but also heightens my feelings of loneliness as I don't have anyone else to talk to. I'm also on the (very long) waiting list for an autism assessment. Not sure how I'll feel either way with that. Constantly feel like I'm in survival mode, always stressed, can't switch off. On anti anxiety pills which at least help me sleep. I've often found most normies couldn't care less about any of the above, vulnerability is seen as something to be explored, a weakness. Women especially detest this kind of thing in a man and see them as weak. Well that's my story, or at least the bits I can remember. I've noticed my recall capacity has been seriously reduced over the last few years, probably the brain shutting down things it doesn't want to remember. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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21st Feb 2023 6:35pm |
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| Moo Member Since: 01 Oct 2021 Location: UK Posts: 1338 
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Sorry to hear your story. It sounds like you've really been through the mill. Sadly you're right about female abuse, it really isn't talked about openly enough. I had a work colleague who was in an abusive relationship but hid it from us until he couldn't do his job because he couldn't afford to put fuel in his car - his wife controlled all his money. Once he was able to talk about and share his situation he was able to get help and support and move on. He is now happily married with a family but understandingly, it took him a long time to believe in himself and trust anyone.
Regarding relationships and a family, I'm a great believer that there is someone out there for everyone. I have two mates that got into relationships in their late 40's and started families so you never know. I wish you well on your journey. Take care and keep talking. Theres's always something around the corner. |
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21st Feb 2023 8:00pm |
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| AMBxx Member Since: 24 Jul 2016 Location: York Posts: 1028 
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This guy combines mental health awareness and Land Rovers. I see a lot of his posts on LinkedIn
https://www.andyelwood.com/about/ |
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22nd Feb 2023 9:47am |
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| Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2079
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I think it’s brilliant that you have shared your stories and links.
As I have stated earlier, we ALL have mental health just as we do physical health. Some days we are great, and others not so great. It’s important for other people to recognise this but it’s equally important for US to recognise that. It’s ok not to feel ok. I also think it’s important to highlight that you can have a great family life, a great work life, a great social life, and still have poor mental health. What’s important is that we recognise that sometimes we just feel mentally less well. I don’t know how many members are on this forum, but I’ll wager that we are mostly men, and I’ll also wager that there’ll be quite a number who will find this thread uncomfortable to read. That’s fine. There’ll also be many who will relate to it and hopefully it’ll help them in some way. Given that the majority of us are men, and we all share a positive interest in all things Land Rover, then I can’t help wondering if there’s not something we can do to raise the profile of men’s mental health using our interest as a platform? I can only imagine that we could have quite an impact. That said, I’m not sure what/when/how? but I wouldn’t want to think it without saying if 👍 |
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22nd Feb 2023 7:49pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3149
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Lands end to John o groats sponsored Landy drive for a men's MH charity? 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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22nd Feb 2023 8:31pm |
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| Cragster69 Member Since: 15 Jun 2021 Location: Scotland Posts: 191
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Given that the majority of us are men, and we all share a positive interest in all things Land Rover, then I can’t help wondering if there’s not something we can do to raise the profile of men’s mental health using our interest as a platform?
I've had similar thoughts around a Land Rover Club and/or Workshop, where owners could come together and help each other, forge friendships, share tools and help each other. Easier said than done and not taking into account geographical locations, availability of space, time and many other logistical challenges. Near me there was a Man's Shed, the idea being that men could come together and through DIY projects provide a space for men to make friendships, do something positive for the community. There was an added bonus that older retired men could spend time with younger men often unemployed and pass on knowledge and skills, that would hopefully give them some confidence and help them into an apprenticeship. Unfortunately it ended up more of a drinking den. Craig. “Don't believe everything you read on the internet.” ― Abraham Lincoln www.scotgrc.co.uk |
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22nd Feb 2023 8:47pm |
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| Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2079
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Now I immediately like the sound of that but have no idea how practical it would be - but that in itself isn’t a reason not to do it… I’m wondering if the scale and profile of the event would be the USP in terms of raising the profile in addition to raising the funds? I’d be keen to hear from others regarding how we might make this happen - even from those reading this thread who are uncomfortable with the subject matter! Even if nothing transpires, this thread alone is positive and a step in the right direction. |
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22nd Feb 2023 9:48pm |
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| Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2079
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Yes I’ve seen a number of those Men’s Sheds initiatives in the press and thought how simple but effective they are. There are so many benefits - although I’m not sure that the drinking den is necessarily going to solve some of the problems. |
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22nd Feb 2023 9:51pm |
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