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charisme1

Member Since: 23 Oct 2019
Location: Paris
Posts: 39

Defender Td5 gearbox R380 Driving style

Hi everybody & Greetings from Paris !
I own a defender TD5 year 2003. If I up-shift quickly with high RPM from 1st to 2d, or from 2d to 3d, I feel a crunch/grind in my hand (not so loud to hear it in the vehicle, I can just feel it with my hand).

If I leave the RPM/rev normal, and leave a 1 second pause on Neutral between these gears, all is fine.

No crunch when downshifting. The gearbox runs with new MTF94 oil.

Is this a normal behavior for a R380 ? Are we supposed to UP shift slowly with these gearboxes, losing momentum ?

Losing momentum is not an issue on flat road, but annoying climbing a slope.

I was wondering if this is a characteristic of the R380 gearbox even when it was brand new back in 2003.

Many thanks for your help and feedback !

Julien

9th Jul 2023 7:05pm

rallysteve

Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 2203

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green

Sadly its a fairly common quirk of the R380. The synchros dont like to be rushed! 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread - Now For Sale

9th Jul 2023 7:09pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Hi Julien.

Love a 2003 Defender

The R380 is not a sophisticated performance gearbox at all, better than the LT77 that proceeded it, but nowhere near as slick as a modern car gearbox. In terms of gearbox sophistication the R380 is not that more advanced than one that only a short time earlier required double de-clutching in the lower gears.

When it comes to changing gear I always find that you have to "feed" the box into gear rather than "force" it in. It feels like a two stage thunk thunk as it goes in to gear. If you get my meaning. That thunk thunk is the selector fork moving the synchro collar across the baulk ring and on to the teeth of the gear itself. The key is matching the revs to the speed you are trying to change gear.

The crunching you are hearing are the teeth on the synchro skipping across the teeth on the gear. It is obviously not a good thing and the more it happens the harder selecting gears smoothly will become. You say that it is not crunching every gear change so I doubt that the teeth of the synchro, baulk ring and gear are badly worn.

As is said "slow is smooth, smooth is fast"...

9th Jul 2023 7:24pm

Mike c

Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Maldon, Essex
Posts: 905

Having owned 3 LR with the r380, the description above regarding changes, matching revs and feeding it into gear is spot on, once mastered you will be fine

2004 Defender 90 Td5 CSW
2002 Discovery 2 td5 GS (gone)
1994 Defender 90 300Tdi CSW (gone)

9th Jul 2023 7:38pm

donmacn

Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1833

I agree with all that's been said above - I've had three R380 gearboxes in the car in the time I've owned it (which sounds worse than it is in reality) and they've all been the same. Currently it's a new-ish, reputable rebuild, and it still has this behaviour. As a well-known poster on here would say, it's an agricultural vehicle at heart and kind of needs to be driven that way.

If I'm about to overtake, and depending on road speed and conditions, I might double-declutch down the box which helps maintain momentum.

I was surprised recently looking over a friend's V8 Morgan to find that it had an R380 fitted! Not really an agricultural vehicle! I don't know if anything was done to those boxes to make them a bit more sporty? Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

10th Jul 2023 1:30pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Triumph TR8 as well IIRC

10th Jul 2023 3:56pm

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2537

Worth a look, you never know.

10th Jul 2023 7:42pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16978

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

If you double-declutch your gear changes, up and down, you should be able to get smooth and rapid changes.

It's an old-tech gearbox in an old-tech vehicle and needs to be treated appropriately.

10th Jul 2023 8:38pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

geobloke wrote:
Triumph TR8 as well IIRC

The TR8 pre-dates the R380 by many years and used either a version of the LT77 or a 3 speed auto. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

11th Jul 2023 12:10pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Quote:
The TR8 pre-dates the R380 by many years and used either a version of the LT77 or a 3 speed auto.

Very true, I had a few TR7s with their LT77 gearboxes. Fun little cars.

11th Jul 2023 12:46pm

kenzle8a

Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

blackwolf wrote:
If you double-declutch your gear changes, up and down, you should be able to get smooth and rapid changes.

It's an old-tech gearbox in an old-tech vehicle and needs to be treated appropriately.

I’ve never found it that bad, fitting the syncro slick shift kit to mine was nice improvement. I’ve driven a very well built one in my father in laws +8 race car and there doesn’t need any form of double clutching or feeding.

11th Jul 2023 10:09pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16978

I'm sure you're right, I ddc everything out of force of habit, which does tend to raise eyebrows sometimes. Most folk today have no idea what you're doing, let alone why.

After years of regularly driving vehicles with no synchro at all it's just become a habit.

11th Jul 2023 10:38pm

NickMc

Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1572

I don’t use third much in a td5- controversial

11th Jul 2023 10:51pm

kenzle8a

Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

blackwolf wrote:
I'm sure you're right, I ddc everything out of force of habit, which does tend to raise eyebrows sometimes. Most folk today have no idea what you're doing, let alone why.

After years of regularly driving vehicles with no synchro at all it's just become a habit.

The one thing i did find was solely driving a td5 for years left me readjusting significantly to a modern manual box in my wife’s Skoda. I had developed somewhat of a method to the madness of only running the Defender.

12th Jul 2023 7:32am

Chris86

Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 761

Gearchange

Couple of things,

Have a chat with opie oils regarding gearbox fluid, we swap vehicle to a Fuchs sintofluid of some sort and the improvement over normal MTF is vast.

Secondly, a momentary pause as you pass through neutral (fractions of a second) makes a huge difference to how the box changes gear.

Last thing, have a look at the turret on your box- they have a tendency to wear slots on them which can make the gearchange awful, if this is the case put a new turret on and liberally grease.

Chris

12th Jul 2023 8:18am

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