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TomB8



Member Since: 17 Nov 2022
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi HT Arles Blue
Anyone tried this ebay intercooler for 300tdi?
As per title, I am interested to know if anyone has tried the cheap(ish) 300tdi intercoolers off ebay.

I know there are varying schools of thought as to whether an upgrade is worth it or not and what size to get to limit turbo lag, but the one on mine is coming up 28 years old and falling apart so may as well get a new one. Would rather not part with £450 for an allisport or airtec (did try allard but they no longer make them).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363101556214?ha...BMsuPAsMhh

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Post #982416 14th Feb 2023 12:04pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3322

United Kingdom 
As you've mentioned an intercooler on it's own isn't going to make much (any..) difference to a 300Tdi unless you've tweaked the fuel pump.

If its just to replace a broken old one, 2nd hand ones are only £60 
Post #982418 14th Feb 2023 12:10pm
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TomB8



Member Since: 17 Nov 2022
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi HT Arles Blue
Thanks, Camelman. I know used ones are cheap, but most will be 20 years old now and I will be tweaking the fuel pump so may as well get a big 'un.

Sorry, perhaps I should have clarified that it is my intention to squeeze some extra ponies out of the old girl.
Post #982421 14th Feb 2023 12:33pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4405

United Kingdom 
Well it is a double pass through which is good. The pipe junctions are swaged which is excellent. Looks like it has all the right mounting gear, as long as they line up. The welds are a little "rustic" but as long as they are good and sealed it should work as intended.

My first double pass through I fitted to my 200tdi didn't have swaged pipes... Had to DIY them as the pipes had the habit of sliding off.

The difference over the standard intercooler (with very mild pump tweak and increase in boost) was excellent. Turned Eva in to a great cruiser even with RTT on top and full laden. I regret getting rid of her now Big Cry

All I had to do was trim the front panel a touch, remove the bonnet stays and fit the intercooler.









Post #982423 14th Feb 2023 12:36pm
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TomB8



Member Since: 17 Nov 2022
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi HT Arles Blue
Thanks, Geobloke. That's a nice looking truck! Does the removal of the bonet stays have any impact?
Post #982442 14th Feb 2023 3:37pm
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4405

United Kingdom 
Thanks I miss the ol girl...

Ok, the bonnet stay remains in place. But the slam panel supports (the diagonal ones behind the grill) have to be removed to fit the full width intercooler. IIRC I did have to remove a little material from the bonnet release pin (centre of the bonnet with the spring). It needed about 5mm or so removing to clear the top of the intercooler. But bear in mind the intercooler I fitted was a decade ago and the design might have changed to prevent the need to trim the pin.

My feelings on the intercooler I fitted were that it was a great modification for the TDI and I would definitely do it again.
Post #982445 14th Feb 2023 4:43pm
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TomB8



Member Since: 17 Nov 2022
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi HT Arles Blue
Thanks, I knew what you meant. Having read a few other writeups I have concluded that the support the slam panel supports are replaced by the intercooler - in that the intercooler supports the slam panel instead. I will try to remember that the pin sticks out and may need trimming!

I started mucking with the pump yesterday. Turned the diaphragm pin but no smoke, definitely a bit more poke though. Now, if I can just get the power up to the same as my TDV8 FFRR I will be happy Rolling with laughter
Post #982601 16th Feb 2023 1:37am
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4405

United Kingdom 
I actually found the instructions I wrote for this install... Might be useful for you. As for the pump there is always the modified pump pin kit by Fourby... Or do some searches for the Bosch VE pump as it was used in all sorts of vehicles including Gen 1 Dodge Rams with Cummins etc. Loads out there on the subject.

https://fourby.co.uk/epages/950004277.mobi...cts/TUNING

Quote:
This is a great modification and well worth thinking about if you drive your landrover a lot, fitting one will make driving so much more relaxed and safe. Having a little extra grunt under you really does make all the difference when overtaking, towing, driving up long hills and may also increase your mpg!

There are a number of companies selling replacement full sized intercoolers and direct replacement intercoolers, some will fit them for you, some won't. I personally like modifying my truck as then I know how it was done and that no corners were cut.

I bought and fitted a full sized intercooler from Straight Forward Supplies (SFS) (or horseclub on Ebay), there are other companies (Allisport and Allard) however SFS at the time sold the cheaper product.

Don't be worried though as upon close inspection the SFS intercooler has been manafactured to a very high standard and is one strong bit of kit!

Fitting a Straight Forward Supplies full width intercooler

This is a modification that can be done with a simple toolkit, having said that an amateur will find this quite a challenge, although not impossible! If you really have no idea then get someone to help or do it for you.

The Intercooler

Tools needed

Socket set
Spanners
Drill and bits (10mm and 8mm)
Barsstard file
Stick file
Grinder or Hacksaw
Medium crosshead screwdriver
Marker pen

Extra bits needed

4x M10x15mm bolts
4x M10 washers
4x M10 spring locking washers
4x M8x25mm bolts
4x M8 washers
4x M8 spring locking washers
2x Galvanised perforated 90 degree roof brackets. Approx. 25cm long.

Ok that's it! All the above come to under a ten pounds, probably under 5 actually.

Method

Time: Approximately 2 hours.

1) Bonnet up, front grill off.

2) Remove slam panel stays, attached to underneath of bonnet catch and radiator/intercooler cradle.

3) In Picture 1 remove bolts coloured in yellow, this will release the horn (you will have to find somewhere new for this to go) and radiator/intercooler top panel brackets.

4) Remove bolts coloured in blue and lift off radiator/intercooler top panel.

5) Remove pipe work to intercooler and lift intercooler out.

6) In Picture 2 there is a yellow line, this represents the only bit of trimming you are going to have to do. In a standard Defender the front panel is bent over back towards the radiator, this ledge needs to be trimmed off flush with the front of the panel. If you do not you will not be able to fit the intercooler in place. It is possible to cut the ledge off with a hacksaw, but a lot quicker with a grinder, which I used. Once flush file down the panel to remove any sharp burrs.

7) The new intercooler will not fit in through the front panel so you have to lift the radiator out of its rubber bushes and angle the top of it backwards towards the bulkhead. It is helpful to have a second pair of hands for this bit, but not impossible on your own.

BE CAREFUL NOW

Cool Push back radiator and slip the intercooler down in front of it. Replace radiator.

9) Check Twice, Drill Once - Holding the intercooler in place slot the roof brackets in to place, measure up and mark where the holes need to be drilled for both the intercooler captive nuts and radiator bracket bolts. Mark the brackets L and R so as not to confuse them.

10) Take brackets out and drill them. 10mm for the intercooler bolts and 8mm for the radiator bracket bolts. You will have to file out the holes as an M10 bolt is slightly bigger than 10mm, use the stick file for this. You will probably need to file more of the bracket away to get a good fit later on.

11) Using the M10 bolts, spring washers and washers attach the brackets to the intercoolers captive nuts. The order should go bolt, spring washer, washer and then captive nut. Do not do these up super tight now.

12) Line up the brackets with the holes for the radiator bracket bolt holes, if they line up, Ace, if they don't file away a little material until they do.

13) Replace radiator/intercooler top panel and bolt back in place.

14) Place radiator brackets on their pegs and using the M8 bolts and washers line up the holes of the radiator bracket, slam panel and intercooler brackets. This bit is a little bit of a fiddle but using the M8 washers, spring washers and nuts tighten up the brackets.

15) Once the radiator bracket bolts are tight, tighten up the M10 bolts on the intercooler.

16) Replace front grill.

17) Remove safety catch on bonnet as it no longer fits – DO NOT try to shut the bonnet with it still in place as you WILL damage your intercooler!

1Cool Replace intercooler pipe work – I found that the pipe work has been pushed closer to the air filter in Eva (200TDI) so am going to fabricate a couple of new pipes to resolve this – coming later.

19) Re-fit horn under the nearside wing.

20) Ok that's it for the installation – Check over the engine bay carefully and remove all tools and make sure everything is connected up properly.

21) Once you are happy start up the engine and take it for a spin, if you hear a loud whistle then you have not attached the pipe work properly. Stop realign rubber pipes and clamps and try again.

Further notes;

As well as replacing the intercooler it is a good idea to fit a performance air filter, K&N, ITG or alike. I have had both and they are as good as each other, I personally prefer the ITG filter as it is much easier to clean and maintain.

Replace your old rubber hoses with silicon ones, they are much better with higher pressures.

You are also going to have to fettle with the boost pressure and injection pump setup too in order to get the most out of your new intercooler. There are instructions on how to adjust your pump and turbo on almost every forum, just ask.

First experiences;

I have tweaked the pump and upped the boost pressure (not running a performance filter at the minute as I am cleaning it - Running standard paper) and on my last tank of fuel I returned 20 miles more than before this mod and that was with alot of playing during and after the tweaking! Whether this conitnues I do not know but early signs are promising.

Trust me it is really worth it! I am still grinning!!
Post #982616 16th Feb 2023 11:33am
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Dave T



Member Since: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 487

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 90 300 Tdi SW Cairns Blue
I went for one of these

https://b7performance.com/products/airtec-...fender-300

very simple to fit and the only mod was to cut about 1 cm from the bonnet catch 2015 RRS Autobiography SDV6
1994 Def 90 300tdi
Post #982630 16th Feb 2023 1:25pm
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TomB8



Member Since: 17 Nov 2022
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi HT Arles Blue
Geolander, that's really helpful thanks. There aren't many videos on installing full width intercoolers. I am on the fence about boost pins and rings. Some suggest its worth it and others say the same result can achieved with some tuning. From what I can tell compared to turning the standard pin to max is the altered geometry of the pin allows less fuel (and therefore smoke) off boost, with similar or improved fuel at full boost. I haven't seen one in person though. The jury is still out on the ring, more research is needed.

The other thing I am considering is taking the wastegate pressure from the manifold, which does seem like a good idea in principal. However, if there is a boost leak I am guessing the turbo would end up over boosting as the wastegate would receive no pressure. Perhaps plumbing a boost gauge into the manifold would show any leaks before this became a problem.


Dave, thank you. That's useful to know. I wonder why the airtech requires less modification than the others. i.e. cutting back the grille surround. The airtech is still quite expensive, almost as much as allisport.
Post #982763 17th Feb 2023 11:39am
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4405

United Kingdom 
Ah ha.... I knew I had other information somewhere...

This is the Dodge RAM VE pump instructions https://www.oka4wd.com/media/kunena/attach...orpump.pdf

These are what Allisport used to send out with their FS intercoolers


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


and a review from Land Rover Web of the Allisport FS intercooler

https://www.landroverweb.com/landrover/pro...-a-200tdi/
Post #982769 17th Feb 2023 12:21pm
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Dave T



Member Since: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 487

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 90 300 Tdi SW Cairns Blue
TomB8 wrote:



Dave, thank you. That's useful to know. I wonder why the airtech requires less modification than the others. i.e. cutting back the grille surround. The airtech is still quite expensive, almost as much as allisport.


I first bought a cheap Chinese side mounted updated intercooler to replace my original which was bungee up with mud and the canes were bent, it made not a jot of a difference. There’s an old saying………you get what you pay for, it’s even more true these days 2015 RRS Autobiography SDV6
1994 Def 90 300tdi
Post #982880 18th Feb 2023 11:38am
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TomB8



Member Since: 17 Nov 2022
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi HT Arles Blue
Geolander,

thank you once again. I have read all of that and it accords with my understanding. I was intrigued as to what instructions came with the allisport, so very interesting to see - although slightly disappointing with the lack of detail with tuning the pump.

Your post/how to is very helpful. I had found it on another forum, but hadn't clocked the name until now.



Dave, I take it the airtech did give you better performance/lower egt's?

I could be completely incorrect here, these are just immediate brain thoughts - an improperly designed double thickness intercooler is probably not going to perform as well as an improperly designed full width intercooler (not terribly designed, just mediocre) if the air takes the path of least resistance and more readily flows though the rad. Whereas the full width may have the same surface area but less resistance to go though such thickness. Of course, that could be b*****ks and the full width just blocks the flow of air to the rad making things double worse.


Shame, but the old tdi's are probably too long in the tooth for someone to be interested in doing a proper test with a few different intercoolers to determine which is best.


I'm going to go cheap as the defender is just a toy for local travel and maybe a pay and play. If a nice intercooler comes up 2nd had for reasonable money in time I may buy it to try it out. If I do, I will report back.
Post #983169 21st Feb 2023 12:55am
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 543

United Kingdom 
TBH I wouldn't worry too much. It is a well trodden path that a big intercooler does bring benefits. On a stock vehicle you'll only notice maybe a slightly more egerness to rev. Although it will be having some impact.

But it also depends on your exact Tdi. They aren't all equal and some are flat as a fart out of the factory and even with tuning they will never run as well as some others.

If you plan to tweak the pump and maybe up the boost and run a different exhaust. Then there are plenty of gains to be had. Headline figures will not be huge, but it'll drive and feel like you've gained a 100hp (even though you haven't). It is the below the curve performance that is more important than the PEAK numbers.

On this basis, I wouldn't worry about reinventing the wheel. Just do what others have been doing for the past couple of decades. Smile
Post #983214 21st Feb 2023 1:12pm
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natyeo



Member Since: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Bentham
Posts: 136

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Santorini Black

Click image to enlarge

I Fitted a std space one but deeper (Extra row) from same supplier

Click image to enlarge

to my 200 tdi 110 SW with fuel pump turned up just a little and it now pulls well with my overdrive nicely on a motorway at 70 to 75 without rev-ing hard

Ebay link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125762808716?_t...%3A2047675 2014 2.2 90 hard top , Warm M8000 , Scorpain winch bumper, Ashcroft rear atb
2012 2.2 tdci 110 Utility
1993 110 CSW Warn M8000 , Scorpain winch bumper , 2" lift , Roamerdive overdrive, on going
1971 Hybird 200tdi, 2 x truetracs,Extrem winch bumper, M8000, GKN overdrive & Coils 2" lift, Glynn Lewis cranked rear trail arms
1971 Series 3 88, Perkins 4203,M8000,SATs,O/D,
Post #983376 22nd Feb 2023 9:38pm
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