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Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Ashcroft 4-pin vs ATB. Am I being daft?

Quick one folks. There’s some great threads on the Ashcroft ATB.

I just wanted to gauge opinion.

I’m a big fan of keeping things standard - my 2010 90 is a fantastic thing and it is more capable as a vehicle than I’m likely to ever need. But I do like to fit subtle improvements where there is a factory weakness.

Case in point - I have 2 pin diffs and after seeing some of the horror stories here, I’m upgrading to 4-pin. The vehicle is going in to have the chassis galved and the axle casings will be blasted. With the diffs out, it makes sense to upgrade them on a bench now, rather than from under the vehicle in the future.

I’d rather have ashcroft 4-pin centres than standard LR units as fitted to later 90s. Aside from cost, I suspect they’ll be more carefully made.

Ashcroft 4-pins are £260ea plus they’ll fit them into my diff casings for £95. So £852 for the pair, fitted, inc VAT.

But - their ATBs are only an extra £180 inc vat, fitted for the pair.

Normally, I wouldn’t add non-factory capability, but I suspect this might be a no brainer.

My 90 does not have traction control and I have been cross axles in land rovers before. I don’t do a lot of off road driving, so it would be good to have some on-road benefits too. When I do go off road, I tend to be alone (getting somewhere inaccessible) and the ATB may be a welcome bonus (I do understand the difference between an ATB and a locker and am familiar with the concept of dabbing the brake to engage the ATBs).

What would the forum experts advise here?

Are the ATBs truly fit and forget? Do they have the same lifespan as a normal open 4-pin centre?

How do they compare to factory traction control in terms of making off road driving easier/less demanding? I guess I’m hoping that a pair of ATBs, coupled with a little left-foot braking, would give the equivalent of an a analog traction control system: not as effective as a pair of lockers - but far more usable, with on road benefits too.

Thanks very much.

12th Aug 2021 12:34am

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3615

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

everything you need to know is here

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic13545...hcroft+atb DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

12th Aug 2021 6:28am

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5424

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

Fit the ATB’s

Yes. Fit and forget

12th Aug 2021 10:10am

BogMonster

Member Since: 05 Feb 2008
Location: Stanley
Posts: 389

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

ATBs every time. The cost difference make it a no-brainer. I've got them in one of my 110s and seriously considering doing the other one as well.

You'll see some comments and Youtube vids saying they don't work. I've no idea how to reconcile that with my experience which is that I don't think I have spun a wheel, and I certainly haven't been stuck, since fitting them. I guess left foot braking works but I have never needed to. ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi

12th Aug 2021 10:38am

Cupboard

Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey

I have an Ashcroft ATB in the back of my 110 and wish I had one in the front. Although the rear diff has (since the upgrade) always whined a bit under partial load and I keep not getting round to fixing it.

It's perfectly possible to break a 4 pin front diff as I found to my cost last year. Took a bad line up a track and stopped going forwards. No wheelspin, aggressive driving, shock loadings or oversized tyres. Reversed, took a more sensible line and by the time I got to the top the front diff was making some very interesting crunching noises every ~4 rotations of the input shaft.

13th Aug 2021 11:20am

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Brilliant - thanks all. Right, no brainer it is. As LR90XS2011 says, I think all the technical queries are answered by the thread linked above Better get saving!

Yes the youtube videos are a bit odd, there's a couple of guys on there in Discoveries that show them as being basically completely inoperative in a cross axle even where they're flashing the brake lights, which is weird. Then another with a P38 that shows exactly what you'd expect - cross axled, dabs brakes and it (granted, quite weakly and no where near as confidently as T/C or a locker) crawls over the obstacle - the P38 vid seems to show the diff working and is so modified I suspect T/C has been disabled.

The only remaining debate I have is whether to have them fitted by a specialist like Ashcrofts or Xcess4x4 or whether to just give the diffs to the (very good) LR garage that is doing the chassis for me (they do rebuild Series transmissions and the like so they're not just chassis swap people). Not sure if its a highly specialised install or not. Having them do it is easier from a logistics perspective (collecting the diffs, sending them off etc)

13th Aug 2021 1:11pm

Timcat

Member Since: 20 Jul 2016
Location: Tanzania at the moment
Posts: 1014

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver

Have them front & rear built up by Ashcroft’s for the additional cost & knowing these guys could build these up blind folded it’s a no brained in my eyes!

13th Aug 2021 6:10pm

Gasket

Member Since: 30 May 2020
Location: Manchester
Posts: 629

Thanks - came to the same conclusion. Have called ashcrofts and reserved a set and will be sending the diffs down to them - very exciting.

13th Aug 2021 11:03pm

BogMonster

Member Since: 05 Feb 2008
Location: Stanley
Posts: 389

Anybody who can build a diff or fit a new centre can build in an Ashcroft ATB. It's not hard to build it better than factory, I found when I stripped mine that the crownwheel bolts fitted by Land Rover had no loctite on them! But if at all unsure get an expert to do it. ---
2006 Defender 110 SW 300Tdi • 2011 Ford Ranger XLT crewcab • 2015 Defender 110 Station Wagon Utility TDCi

14th Aug 2021 12:48pm

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