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| LaRouille Member Since: 13 Mar 2012 Location: Paris Posts: 3   
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hy! could you give us maker/reference and shop where you buy this in/out thermo regards from Paris :thumbsup: Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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13th Mar 2012 3:16pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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LaRoulille
You can find it at conrad http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/854714/...4714_50_50 checktemp III it is called, also nagata.. nanegaka... euh nakatanenga (site sponsor)has them, and better service than conrad  Click image to enlarge :) Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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13th Mar 2012 3:25pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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Renamed the thread
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18th Mar 2012 7:39pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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Compressor / on board air.
When looking back at my experiences with compressors the best one I had was a 10 euro thing that functioned just long enough to get one tire back to pressure and get me home for dinner. I am sure the last minutes pressure was only rising as a result of heat increase rather than compression of air. All the others were waste investments, as I never HAD to use them. So is it really worth putting 500 euro in a decent 12V model? To me not, certainly as I saw branded products at these price levels which are no more than a labeled 1/5th price “Chinese” original. None of them is able to deliver nor qty nor lifespan. The only valid compressor is a belt driven one as I had on my discovery. With a small tank this combi was able to make airtools work as they are supposed to and not with 3 minute breaks between each nut. As the 110 has airco, no more place to hide the compressor at this moment. Valid alternative, and many times forgotten about: CO2 welding gas Cheap, can find it everywhere, safe, both good for inflating as for power tools and no moving parts so nothing to wear out. The main disadvantage is that it will be empty one moment. My reasoning with this is 8kg cylinder @ 60BAR 1kg = 0.5m3 8x0.5x60 = 240m3 @1BAR 1 tyre = approx 0.1m3 @ 2.5 BAR = 240/2.5*0.1 = 9.6 tires /bottle = sufficient I would guess (x2 for reinflating after offroad pressure) Cost 15 euro or 1.56 eur/tyre Compressor cost: 500 euro/ 1.56 = 320 tires to be at the same cost, didn’t find a supplier guaranteeing this. Another very good trick is to inflate your spare tire to 5 bar and carry a connection tube so you can equalize pressure between 2 tires. One remark, I get reactions to this of people who have pressurized air or diving botlles available. Although lighter and at first sight an alternative I have 2 concerns with them: Typical they hold 8 liters at 200 bar, this is only 1.6m3 and a lot less than the CO2 alternative. The pressure release valves for diving have no real pressure or flow, so you need to adapt a normal valve to fit the diving bottle, dangerous games at 200bar. Secondly, keeping 200bar of a primary element in the combustion process in my car doesn’t sound very attractive. I know that safety should not be an issue if all is done as it should but in case things go wrong you are carrying a bomb while the CO2 is an extinguisher. Talking about alternative uses for the CO2, It’s a fire extinguisher which doesn’t put everything full of powder. And if you turn the bottle up-side down you can use it to freeze stuff. Like beers on a hot day. Or fill your fresh foodbags with it to preserve longer. (Very Important: If you have access to oxygen bottles (medics etc) NEVER EVER use them, you’ll start a fire in a hurry when inflating a tire) Despite this opinion I had a 12v compressor available so went to work. This compressor is identical to a type of the viair brand, but bought at a truck shop for 1/4th of the price. 1. All original housing parts and handle removed, output replaced by a festo coupling and wires shortened to accept decent wiring.
2. Cover made from some checker plate to cover from impact and avoid the hot parts making contact with cargo
3. All mounted (on rubber bushings to reduce vibrations)
4. A pressure switch with festo couplings, relieve valve and pressure valve finds it place. (set to 4bar instead of 8 to save the compressor hard labour) Fix output near door at the rear, but as it's all festo system i can route and expand to anywhere. Click image to enlarge 5. Made a cradle for a pressure tank from a truck, which is plugged into the system. By not mounting it fix under the car i can use this to carry air from the car or to the car, eg charging the tank with a compressor at home. For normal use of the car the tank is easily removed and cargo area free while keeping the compressor for using directly.
Click image to enlarge 6. The CO2 bottle can still be build into the circuit if I want and fill the tank. (prolonged high flow from CO2 bottles can temp freeze the pressure valve) With this I do have the 12V compressor, airtank and CO2 bottle solution in one. TBC :) Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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18th Mar 2012 7:45pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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WEBASTO AIRTOP
By accident, ( thanks Robert !!  ), I stumbled onto an opportunity to get a used airtop cheap, dirt-cheap. So although summer is approaching I had to jump for it.
I’ll try to explain both functionality and wiring of how I did it as I see a lot of questions around these systems on web. First of all the unit needed some good cleaning and a testrun to make sure it all worked as it should. So contributed a bit to global warming.
With just enough place available under the rear seats I was able to squeeze in the heater. (check the underside! As I almost positioned it on top of a reinforcement beam).
Exhaust and air inlet are nicely routed in the wheel arch and out of harms way.
Fuel take off. I found this solution on the german blacklandy forum. This is genial. It solves the issues with plugging into the OEM fuel lines or cutting out an acces to the tank in the rear floor or having to take the tank out to put the pickup tube. With time pressing I plugged in the pickup tube by making a small hole in the fill hose (punching not drilling to avoid rough edges and bad sealing and counting on the rubber pressure to seal off. 
Till now I don’t have any leaks appearing and in case they come I’ll install the tube adapter. Fuel Pump I enclosed the pump in a box avoiding mud and corrosion.
Electrics
The airtop came with the standard Rheostat switch, not a lot of bells and whistles. FYI, this is not a thermostat, it sets a fuel-regime for the burner but temp measurements is done by a sensor inside the airtop. (optionally you can replace the resistor with an external sensor for more accurate regulation) The benefit is that the rheostat can be mounted anywhere, basically this sets the burning regime. Simply said quick or slow heating. From this setting the airtop calculates with the measured airflowtemp how much fuel it needs to burn. It actually measures the difference between ambient and heater core and adapts the heating regime to that. If the difference is big (means cold environment) it will burn at max regime if the difference is small it will reduce the regime. This can cause the webasto to ventilate only and not start the burner if the ambient temp is high enough (eg summer). A bit confusing for newbies like me. The rheostat has 4 wires and “sends” 2 values over them; on/off and a variable burning regime. In the off position the signal is OFF and Minimum for burning regime. This means you can switch on the airtop by other means (putting +12vdc on the black wire from eg a thermostate, switch etc) and the burning regime regulator will be have minimum as setting. I routed the +12V output of the checktemp and the remote control to this so I get 3 possible ways to switch on the airtop. - rheostat - checktemp thermostat - remote control Note: when using the checktemp and the remote to control the airtop the burning regime will be minimum, while this may sound bad it actually is a good thing. The airtop is still measuring temperature difference and will in case of a cold car (eg winter mornings) burn at full power and once the airflow temp is reached switch down to lower regime. But if the airtemp is only a bit off, it will burn at minimum setting avoiding big temp swings or overheating the cabin. If the burning regime would be set at high by the rheostat, the burner would always burn in highest regime and switch off earlier, but in combination with a thermostat this would cause a continues short cycle of overheating/cooling down. Timers and Remotes I had timers installed in other cars and found them to be useless, most of the time I am too early or too late in the car to take full benefit of the heated interior. On the other hand, the remote control on/off I had was perfect for me as I could estimate within 30min when I will be going somewhere. So I sourced a remote and installed it. The remote is wired in such way that the thermostat switch has no influence. The remote has an internal settable timer. There are a lot of discussions to be found on how to install these remotes, FYI it is a very simple job. Don’t bother with harnesses etc, way too complicated as the remotes are in the first place intended for the water heaters and not for the airtop range. The concept behind it is very simple; modules. The heater knows what to do, it just needs a signal WHEN to do it: or from a switch, or from a thermostat or from a remote. The remote is a timer module with 3 main properties; a. it sends confirmation back, so you know the remote got the request b. it has a huge range. c. Time period is settable up to 120min runtime. The remote box has 3 wires and 1 antenna connector, nothing more. +12, Ground, signal The signal puts 12V to the right pin which switches on the webasto. SIMPLE It is nothing more or less than another switch putting 12V on the run-pin so it can be put parallel with any other controller. Find the wire which gets the signal from the thermostat, join the signal cable from the remote. DONE! Edit: the general pin layout is as follows: 1: +12VDC 2: BUS signal (specific to car maker if branded remote or W BUS for universal webasto non-branded remote) 3: Switched 12VDC (this is the pin you need) 4: na 5: ventilation mode (same as the classic switch on purple wire, so connect this pin to purple to ventilate over remote (T90 and higher) 6: ground THERMOSTATE with Checktemp This unit has a NC and NO contact output. Switched by a user set temp. As described earlier I have the NO contact routed in parallel with the OEM airco switch. This in short switches on the airco if temp goes above a set max and leaves the possibility to override the airco/switch on the airco manually. The NC contact (= closed as long as max temp is not reached) I have now routed in series with the webasto. Note: the NC/NO contacts are not separate, it is a bi-stabil relais meaning the 12V signal goes or to the NC or to the NO contact. The functioning is as follows: a. Cold car/winter: checktemp switches webasto on, webasto senses cold temp and starts heating till temp is reached. It then switches off the webasto and the airco ON (but in winter we have the airco switched off; so no cooling) b. Hot car/summer: checktemp will switch on Airco, once the temp is lowered it switches off the airco and thereby the webasto ON. As the webasto measures a hot inside temp it will not start a burning cycle but only ventilate and so make an airflow which circulates the cold air. Once the interior gets hot again, the airco will start cooling again and after that the webasto ventilate again. This gives a more even distribution of the airco in the cabin. Ventilator mode To make it even more confusing. The webasto has a ventilation-only mode; made for summertime. This saves the life of the burner. This mode is selected by switching the purple wire to ground. All other controls can still be used for switching on the webasto but it will only regulate the ventilator and not cycle the burner/pump etc. A switch is installed next to the rheostat so I can select summer/winter mode. Impressions so far Even with the wrong season in front of us it might be worth doing this installation now. Leaves me all the time for testing and finding out potential problems with the unit before it gets really cold. This small unit is a devil in a box, I was really impressed with the heat output and speed of this thing. Air or Water or both discussion I always thought the airheaters were a bad idea as a winter solution as they do not give any protection to the engine. With their cost being almost double of a water heater I really did not see the benefit. Even with only a couple of days of playing around with this unit I am changing my opinion drastically. Sure, they do not pre-heat the engine so cold starts are still an issue. But the efficiency for in-cabin heating is not comparable to a water heater. The webasto on the mb has to run minimum 45min to get any cabin heating at outside temps lower than -10. The airtop gives almost instantly hot air. The other big benefit is of course that you don’t have to heat a complete engine system before getting any air-heat in the cabin, this is really noticeable in cold climates, switch off the engine and even with the recirculation pump running the heat output is gone within 5 minutes. So I am very curious for next winter. We have minus temp forecasts for next weekend in the mountains so might throw in a sleeping bag and go find out. Would I still consider installing a water heater? Yes, for engine heating only but even then a 220VAC block heater as the DEFA system seems to be a valid and less costly alternative to a diesel heater if you park in the civilized world most of the time. Hmmmm,…. Again more considerations to make…. TBC :) Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Last edited by tatra805 on 27th Mar 2012 4:10pm. Edited 2 times in total |
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26th Mar 2012 3:27pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10359 
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Great post
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26th Mar 2012 3:47pm |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6676
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Am I correct that you made a hole in the tube that leads down to the fuel tank from the filler neck ?
Did you just push your fuel pipe in until it entered the tank ? Do you have pictures of the location of your hole please ? Regards Matt |
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26th Mar 2012 3:51pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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Thanks Greeni
Hi matt, you can see where the blue tube enters the filling tube on the picture of the pump. Just as you say, punctured the filling tube with a small screwdriver and then pushed the tube through the hole. (if this goes easy you know your hole is too big. I had to use pliers to push through so it really seals off. Then feed in about 70cm or something. I was afraid the tubing would float in the fuel and suck air but till now no problems with it. the link to the other forum where a member put a 60mm tube between the rubber hose with the metal webasto pickup tube installed in it is here: http://www.blacklandy.de/blboard/forum/sho...amp;page=2 think you need to log in to see the pictures.  |
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26th Mar 2012 4:33pm |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6676
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Ahh, didn't spot the blue tube in the picture - that is so clever !
You're right, I need to log in to see it, I don't suppose if you get time, you could post it up here for us
Thank you |
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26th Mar 2012 4:45pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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With reference and
to the guys at blacklandy.de
Just truly hope no one copies this and starts selling it commercially. Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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26th Mar 2012 5:02pm |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6676
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Thank you
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26th Mar 2012 5:09pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436
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Ram-mount alternative
(repost from other thread to complement this one) Tip! Defender mirror arms have the same ball size as the RAM-mount system
I was not 100% happy with the position of the tablet, so screwed a spare mirror arm on the cubby box et voila, more flexibility.
Nicely folds down out of the way.
Should work perfectly as a camera mount on roofracks etc or take of a mirror and put on your camera with big tele-lens for safari trips. :D Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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27th Mar 2012 11:10am |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6676
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Very innovative
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27th Mar 2012 11:13am |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069 
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brilliant idea
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27th Mar 2012 8:49pm |
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