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| JPE Member Since: 19 Nov 2018 Location: South West England Posts: 316   
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I'm thinking of putting an A bar on my puma. I like this Masai one - https://www.masai4x4.com/defender/side-ste...-p15135760
What are the rules on A bars? ok for use on public highways? |
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23rd Jan 2019 12:23am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1833 
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well, that's probably something else I didn't know.......
I've had an A bar like that - identical as far as I can see - on my car for something approaching 15 years. While one Police officer did once do a "walk around" - as the other chatted to my wife about aggressive driving (!   ) there was no mention of the A bar.
I guess there are countless ones of these on the road up and down the country. But just because lots of folk are doing it doesn't necessarily make it right. I would be happy to see a link to any relevant legislation. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Jan 2019 9:18am |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2499 
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Seems pretty clear from reading the Masai webpage that it is for off road use only and should be removed when on the highway. (Unless your the Duke of Edinburgh of course and then you can ignore it
 ). Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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23rd Jan 2019 9:56am |
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| OsloBlue Member Since: 14 Jul 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 822 
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Bullbars/a bars of metal construction should not be used on road unless it is integrated into a bumper or winch setup or manufactiured before a certain date.
I believe on the continent they’re entirely prohibited. The genuine LR soft bar is legal though as it’s not of metal construction I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/ Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html  |
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23rd Jan 2019 10:45am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240 
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Taken from the Department for Transport Information Sheet:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/g...l-bars.pdf
Whilst it doesn't specifically mention A bars, I suspect it applies to them equally. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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23rd Jan 2019 10:51am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1833
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^^^^^^^
You just beat me to it... I was about to quote that very same text. I thought I'd just check for myself. I know for a fact that my A bar has been on my car since about 2001, so it predates this 2007 statement, and must therefore be OK. It's certainly been through many an MOT since then - though the test might not be picking up on that? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Jan 2019 11:07am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16986 
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Is your insurer aware that it is fitted? Most insurers get quite disturbed by the presence of anything resembling an front bar.
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23rd Jan 2019 11:10am |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1833
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I think so - I certainly used to have it on the list of stuff I would send any new insurer. I guess I should check again.
I only fitted the thing because I was regularly towing a boat in the NW highlands on dark winter nights..... My logic was, and actually still is, that if I hit a stag, I might lose a wing, or a headlight, but there's a better chance of the radiator remaining intact and therefore my getting to somewhere I could sort myself out. If it's a late-Sunday in January, on the road between Inchnadamph and Scourie, snowing and blowing a gale etc etc, it's not a great place to be stuck, and the 'AA man' is likely to be some distance away. And the fact is that it's in those conditions you're much more likely to see deer down by the road, and not see them in advance. If the Government was to require private landowners to erect deer fencing.... then maybe no requirement...? But that's not going to happen any time soon. I guess it strikes me as another example of 'poor' legislation - aimed at the majority of population, and not considering all of the requirements of others. That's what I mean by 'poor' legislation. Not that pedestrian safety isn't important, but not everyone drives in the inner city. Allowing for that though, and assuming I was to remove it, where do you fit auxiliary lighting? Direct to the bumper? Would a bar specifically-designed for light attachment not 'resemble' an A bar? No 'heat' in this - in case it gets misinterpreted - just what I think are some relevant questions. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Jan 2019 11:22am |
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| ARC99 Member Since: 19 Feb 2013 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1831 
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Just to add to this discussion.
I have a soft Land Rover A bar fitted, the top brackets are pliable or easy to bend, they were looking a bit rough so I obtained from a certain company ( I am not naming them as they are well known) replacement top brackets. When they arrived I found that they were made from sheet steel approximately 3/16" thick and difficult to bend. As the Land Rover brackets are part of the approval I contacted the local Police Traffic office, the Sgt I spoke to had some knowledge of the regulations and was more than helpful and got back to me a couple of days later with an update. Although there is no stated case or definition, Police speak for what is and isn't legal if not defined under the regulations, he and the CPS think that fitting the replacement brackets make the fitting of A bar illegal as it had been altered from the approved type approval but it would need a court case to prove this. He did not recommend the fitting of the brackets as I could end up in a court case. I rang the company and informed them of my findings , they thanked me for the information but would continue to sell them as it had not been made illegal to fit them. Don't make old people mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to  us off.
Richard |
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23rd Jan 2019 1:20pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5086  
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As far as I am aware A bars are legal providing they have a purpose, an example would be if you have an A fitted that has lights attached. I have A bars on both mine with spots fitted and they pass MOT's without a problem. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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23rd Jan 2019 5:16pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240
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Whilst what you say is probably true, don't rely on the MOT to prove it. Like many things, the MOT isn't designed to check the legality of this sort of thing. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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23rd Jan 2019 7:27pm |
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| JPE Member Since: 19 Nov 2018 Location: South West England Posts: 316
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Thanks for the answers. Is it really the case that if I put lights on an A bar it will be legal?
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23rd Jan 2019 8:32pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 07 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1833
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If it were me, then I guess I'd try and find an e-marked one, as well as putting lights on.
But that doesn't constitute legal advice! Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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23rd Jan 2019 8:43pm |
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| bankz5152 Member Since: 02 Feb 2017 Location: South London/North Kent Posts: 2091 
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I have a low A bar on mine, which was custom made to suit the D44 bumper. MOT fine (i know not a legal thing bla bla) also had a few chats with police who admired my 110, none of them gave any mind.
I do however have lights on it and it is fitted to a winch bumper (no winch just yet) Instagram @defender_ventures Empire Tuning - Agent |
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23rd Jan 2019 9:19pm |
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