↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Engineering project to reduce weight in a Puma 110
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 2 12>
Print this entire topic · 
Matt3932



Member Since: 19 Jun 2018
Location: Cheltenham
Posts: 35

United Kingdom 
Engineering project to reduce weight in a Puma 110
I'm curious, and I've a little time on my hands, so, I'd like to see how much weight can be removed from my 110 without compromising the on and off road capabilities of the vehicle. Conscious that rotating mass is a significant issue, I've fitted Bowler wheels, I've also looked at:

CF panels (ridiculously expensive)
Fibreglass panels (relatively fragile)
Other Bowler parts (v pretty but v expensive)

In terms of removing stuff, the tow bar could come off (IRO 11kgs?)
The front bumper could be drilled (IRO 2kgs)

Standard puma seats could be changed out for lighter items (IRO 10kgs?)

But these are incremental savings - what are the big ticket items, it has to come down to chassis and axles I'd imagine....I'd appreciate any thoughts/lessons learned before I embark on a series of costly follies!
Post #724093 18th Aug 2018 11:23am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
On puma's and late TD5's the door skins are steel, you could replace them with the earlier ally ones. Or you could just remove them all along with the roof and windscreen. So it somewhat resembles an US army recon version - how far do you want to go?

You could strip out all the sound insulation, carpets, head lining etc.

Seats could probably be replaced with Series 3 ones. Dash could probably be replaced with some simple brackets.

But as you've alluded to the vast majority of the weight is going to be in the chassis and drive train, most of which is difficult if not impossible to lighten.
Post #724154 18th Aug 2018 6:42pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2049

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green
As above. Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent
Post #724165 18th Aug 2018 8:03pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6026

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
What are you trying to achieve?

As someone once told me (when I was pen-ing the plans for my current Td5 110, I was going to build it with a Totota straight 6 diesel or a Merc OM606), he said...

"If you're trying to end up there... why are you starting here?"

Meaning, instead of trying to shoeshorn in a toyota engine, just buy a toyota.

If you're trying to make a 110 "light".... just don't have a 110...

I can't imagine LR purposefully made the 110 heavier than it needed to be.
Post #724174 18th Aug 2018 9:08pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
sako243



Member Since: 08 Jul 2014
Location: Wales
Posts: 1184

Wales 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Alpine White
Well the big ticket items are (approx):
- Axles: 120kg each (dressed without wheels)
- Engine: 300kg (V8s lighter, Tdis around there, Td5 likely a bit higher)
- Chassis: 180kg
- Gearbox: 55kg
- Transfer box: 50kg
- Bell housing: 10kg

So given a 110 CSW is a tad under 2 tonne (well none TDCI versions) you've got at least half of that listed there. Ed
82 Hotspur Sandringham 6x6
95 Defender 110 300Tdi
Post #724279 19th Aug 2018 7:37pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Mike c



Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Maldon, Essex
Posts: 904

England 2004 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Belize Green
If you compare a 110 to a discovery 3/4, they are lightweight! Lol
Post #724330 20th Aug 2018 9:13am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
OsloBlue



Member Since: 14 Jul 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 822

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
Mike c wrote:
If you compare a 110 to a discovery 3/4, they are lightweight! Lol


I know this from jumping over bridges and speed-bumps at High speeds.

Disco goes further but defender goes higher. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/
Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html
Post #724334 20th Aug 2018 9:55am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Mike c



Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Maldon, Essex
Posts: 904

England 2004 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Belize Green
Shocked
Post #724337 20th Aug 2018 10:07am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
sako243



Member Since: 08 Jul 2014
Location: Wales
Posts: 1184

Wales 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Alpine White
I think given the size of the vehicle it's pretty lightweight anyway. Quite a few estates and larger saloons are coming in around the 1.5 - 2.0 tonne mark nowadays... Ed
82 Hotspur Sandringham 6x6
95 Defender 110 300Tdi
Post #724399 20th Aug 2018 4:24pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16807

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
What are you trying to achieve?

Strip off all the body above the waistline, ditch the windscreen, wipers, heater and doors. Strip out the entire interior except the driving seat. Loose the powered front axle and replace with a plain tube. Ditch the transfer box and fit a propshaft straight to the gearbox.

If you're lucky that'll be about 25% lighter than standard.

If you want more, lose the bumper, cut out some crossmembers then drill holes in the rest of the chassis and radius arms, then fit the narrowest and smallest tyres you can find. That might get you another 5%.

It won't be much use after this, but it would be an interesting engineering exercise.
Post #724429 20th Aug 2018 5:46pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2049

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green
diesel_jim wrote:
What are you trying to achieve?

As someone once told me (when I was pen-ing the plans for my current Td5 110, I was going to build it with a Totota straight 6 diesel or a Merc OM606), he said...

"If you're trying to end up there... why are you starting here?"

Meaning, instead of trying to shoeshorn in a toyota engine, just buy a toyota.

If you're trying to make a 110 "light".... just don't have a 110...

I can't imagine LR purposefully made the 110 heavier than it needed to be.


Do not like that logic. If everyone thought thag way we would never get anywhere!! Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent
Post #724433 20th Aug 2018 5:58pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
apt100



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1547

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
This table shows the differences between the different models.
So it looks like taking all the rear bodywork off (110 chassis cab) saves about 270kg compared to eg the 110 Utility.
But that might be pessimistic if the chassis cab has a heavier chassis than the other models?



Click image to enlarge
Post #724438 20th Aug 2018 6:10pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Matt3932



Member Since: 19 Jun 2018
Location: Cheltenham
Posts: 35

United Kingdom 
Thanks very much for all the responses, both helpful and humerous. I've tried to drop a piccie of the veh as is, but being mildly computer illiterate have singularly failed.

It's currently a soft top with some mods to allow carriage of two kayaks with the roof on or off. The engine has been lightly breathed-on with new pipework, a tweaked ecu and a new BAS inter cooler.
What am I trying to achieve? I've always liked Mr Chapman's mantra of "adding lightness", and I needed the 110 to meet a number of criteria, soft top, carry the boats, the dog and the family, and enable us to access entertaining places. That simple and that complicated.

The weight loss is designed to facilitate better performance and better economy (inaugural trip was to Lake Garda where we spent a small fortune on crappy Italian diesel....without compromising the on or off road capabilities of the veh.

It's also quite fun to investigate ways to take weight out of what is essentially already for purpose. It's a project,not a crusade.
Post #724440 20th Aug 2018 6:15pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Timo K



Member Since: 23 Aug 2012
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 169

Finland 
I have myself sometimes toyed with the idea of a lightweight 110. It would be interesting to see the weight difference with a carbon fiber body for example. My logic behind it all was mainly better offroad ability due to lower weight and therefore lower ground pressure.

However, I do think the logic of doing it for lower fuel consumption is flawed... I doubt you would see much if any benefits from a couple of hundred kg's saved, not in terms of performance figures or fuel consumption. Looking at how much diesel your average SUV is drinking taking into consideration that they are often half a tonne lighter with vastly more efficient drivetrains yet only return a couple of L per 100km better efficiency leads me to believe a few hundred kilos off a Defender would be insignificant.

Most of the poor economy is due to the absolutely horrific aerodynamics and antiquated drivetrain with high drag.
Post #724453 20th Aug 2018 7:13pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2049

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green
The Russians have a few CF bodied Ultra4 trucks. Not links atm but theh look evil

Short of fitting lightweight parts etc.. there isnt much you can drop Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent
Post #724461 20th Aug 2018 7:39pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 2 12>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums