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big110



Member Since: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Sweeden
Posts: 342

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
question re: upgraded Ashcroft HD halfshafts
Upgrading the half shafts and CV/s on my PUMA since I have front and rear ARB Air lockers going in.

Couple of questions...

Do I need HD Drive flanges? I plan to still run my alloy wheels and cant see how those would work.

I read that some of these axle upgrades were not compatible with using alloys and i dont want to go to steel wheels (look not for me and the family!)

thanks!
Post #591564 9th Jan 2017 3:20pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
It would be a good idea to fit Ashcroft HD flanges with the Ashcroft HD shafts. I have this combination and have run them with Boosts, Boosts with 30mm Rakeway spacers, and now Blindos, and they do not cause problems. (I think that there may be some inferior brands of so-called HD flanges which do cause issues wit some alloy wheels).

The HD flanges are higher grade material with better wear resitance to the standard flanges, and are probably manufactured to finer tolerances. The standard shafts and flanges are notorious for wear through fretting, even if lubricated regularly, and are known to fail frequently and generally at inopportune moments. Whilst Ashcroft shafts and flanges will still fret and do need lubricating, they are much stonger and much more forgiving that standard ones. It seems to me to be a false economy to fit shafts and not flanges, especially since failure of the flange is likely to damage the shaft.

The Puma driveline is quite fragile, and anything you can do to beef it up is a good thing.
Post #591570 9th Jan 2017 3:59pm
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big110



Member Since: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Sweeden
Posts: 342

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
VERY helpful. I dont really understand the spacers- may send you a PM. BUT really thankful for the reply, exactly what I needed to get educated on this. Seems like Ashcroft is the way to go Thumbs Up
Post #591575 9th Jan 2017 4:17pm
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davew



Member Since: 02 Jan 2012
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 888

England 1990 Defender 90 V8 Petrol PU Auto Rioja Red
Alloy wheels don't fit over any of the HD flanges, Ashcroft or otherwise. One way to adapt them to fit is to use wheel spacers as they give the necessary clearance around the flange. Obviously you then have the potential issues associated with wheel spacers !

It may be that some alloy designs will fit without spacers, when I tried fitting alloys to mine (someone was borrowing my mud tyres and the intention was for me to put their alloys on my vehicle whilst they were using the mud tyres) there was no way the flange would go far enough through the centre hole in the alloy to allow the wheel to sit properly against the hub. Most alloys though, to compensate for their inherent weakness, tend to fill every available hole with material to try and match the strength of a steel wheel, which is why most 4x4 alloy wheels are actually heavier than the steel ones. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/
Post #591584 9th Jan 2017 4:51pm
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big110



Member Since: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Sweeden
Posts: 342

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
weird.

Dave Ashcroft wrote to say no prob fitting HD flanges under alloys- no spacers needed. I just dont want to get foooked at the shop and not be able to get my wheels back on...

Tell me more about the issues with spacers mate
Post #591592 9th Jan 2017 5:06pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Have a look at this thread where a similar question was asked.

Boosts do fit over Ashcroft HD flanges, Rakeway spacers fit over Ashcroft HD flanges, Boosts fit on spacers over Ashcroft HD flanges, and Blindos fit over Ashcroft HD flanges. I provided photographic evidence to support my assertions!

It may well be that other makes of HD flange are different, or other alloy wheels are different.

blackwolf wrote:
Ok, I have just test fitted one of my rears without the 30mm Rakeway spacers and can confirm that there are no problems. If I get the chance tomorrow I'll post pictures of the hub with and without the spacer. The inside (and outside!) of my wheels are filthy and there were no witness marks anywhere inside the wheel when I took it off again which were suggestive of an improper fit.

I did upgrade the drive flange bolts to socket-head caps when I fitted the spacers to prevent damage to the wheels, but I don't think this affects the fit at all without spacers.

Hope this helps.


blackwolf wrote:
Here you go, should be self-explanatory. Photo with wheel shows wheel on hub without spacer. You can just about see it's snug on the hub.


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


blackwolf wrote:
Be aware if fitting Boosts on 30mm spacers that the corners of the hexagon heads of the drive flange bolts will foul and gouge the inside of the Boosts unless the heads are aligned precisely so that a flat parallels the circumference of the flange.

An easy solution to this is to replace the hex head bolts with hexagon socket-head cap-screws (what people tend incorrectly to call "Allen bolts"). The originals bolts are specials since they are grade 10.9 (rather than the usual 8.8 for 'standard' HT bolts and screws) but socket-head caps are 10.9 as standard, so easy to obtain and much cheaper.

You can see this in my photos earlier in this thread.
Post #591603 9th Jan 2017 5:35pm
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yobbie



Member Since: 15 Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 711

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 90 Td5 Heritage LE Bronze Green
I'm using Ashcroft HD shafts and CVs with Ashcroft lockers. I have HD flanges and use genuine Boosts and Freestyle alloys without spacers
Post #594944 21st Jan 2017 11:14am
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
i have ashcroft shafts and CVs and std drive members and boosts

as an aisde i would use Ashcroft locker over an ARB, they have great engagement on the mech and disengage quicker. Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop
Post #595033 21st Jan 2017 5:58pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19452

United Kingdom 
Can anyone confirm the bolt length for using the Ashcroft HD flanges?
Standard is 10.9 grade M10 45mm, I presume this is fine unless the flange is a little thicker and requires slightly longer fixings?

I'm intending to fit the Ashcroft HD flanges and use boosts with NO spacers on the standard hub so I presume this is fine and have no intentions of changing away from Boosts or fitting spacers.

Are the socket head cap bolts still a good idea even without spacers or will standard hex bolts be fine?
Perhaps the spring washers with the socket caps maybe better for avoiding threadlock issues though with standard... Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #718300 17th Jul 2018 11:29pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
An old thread but it covers the area I am looking at.

I am about to get some 895 Ashcroft hd drive members to fit under std lr boosts, no spacers on a 2007 and 2010 puma. From above it seems that will work.

Can anyone confirm the length and thread size for screw caps to suit please. Will fit with nord locs. Was going to go 12.9 on them. Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop
Post #718305 18th Jul 2018 6:01am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
The factory bolts are (as custom90steve says) M10 x 45mm Grade 10.9, and the Ashcroft flanges use standard length bolts (note that these are stronger than the "normal" HT bolts supplied by a fastener supplier which will be Grade 8.Cool

I have used hex socket head bolts for years, there is no downside and several upsides (standard SHCs are grade 10.9). I also do not use thread lock but use spring washers, and have never had any problems. Spring washers were used on all Series vehicles and I believe that the change to thread locker was made on the grounds of economy and ease of assembly rather than for any technical reason.

The principal reason for not using thread locker (and also for using proper gaskets rather than RTV or similar) is to prevent the problems you can easily have with the bolts shearing off in the hub, which is particularly likely to happen if gunge gets into the holes. It is also important not to overtighten them, if I recall correctly the torque for these is 65Nm /48lbft which isn't particularly tight.
Post #718318 18th Jul 2018 7:48am
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19452

United Kingdom 
Blackwolf - Hate to be a pain but could you find a suitable supplier of the bolts? (And post if at all possible.)
I'm a little sceptical regarding using eBay for such items which I wouldn't be normally.

Stainless spring washers should be fine as well I should think.
I'm going to at least order the front 859 flanges today, as I can get away with them without any changes to the front shafts or CV's for now.

The rear I'm going to need shafts and flanges, quite a cost I could do without!
Pity they weren't caught a bit earlier, but HD shafts won't do any harm except the price but still better than the arm, a leg and an eyeball LR charge.
At 8k a year approx I do they should last a long time!

Thank you. Thumbs Up Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧


Last edited by custom90 on 18th Jul 2018 6:39pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #718358 18th Jul 2018 12:31pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2520

Scotland 
Any hardware/fasteners store will be able to supply socket-cap bolts in M10.
Post #718371 18th Jul 2018 2:52pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I bought mine at my local branch of Allfix, but any good fastener supplier will have what you want. The problem you'll find if buying online other than on eBay is that the will usually be a minimum quantity of 100, which may be more than you want to buy. I suggest googling for a local supplier and then giving them a ring.

I don't really see a problem buying on eBay and for small quantities it is usually easier. Choose a supplier who specialises in bolts etc with good feedback and you should be fine.
Post #718383 18th Jul 2018 4:00pm
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Paul55



Member Since: 03 Feb 2009
Location: Somewhere in my head!
Posts: 510

England 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Steve, have a look at kayfast1 on eBay, they appear to sell a huge range of nuts, bolts etc in limited qty,s Cogito ergo sum
Post #718388 18th Jul 2018 4:29pm
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