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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
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United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
10AS Td5 vs. Puma??
I always thought both of these 10AS's were the same for puma and Td5 (ok, differences with the frequencies on various country spec, and some with/without CDL).

But, today I tried helping a good friend to add an additional key plipper....

Plugged nanocom in (it's an early 1st edition with serial plug on it, so old), eventhough it comes up as "td5 ECU" (and froze quite a few times), I managed to get into the alarm settings, then "add plipper"

All went well, added the new plipper, but as soon as it did that, I got the err message "cannot communicate with ECU" or words to such effect.
But the new plipper worked, but... it removed the original one.

Re-did it, reassigned the old plipper, same err message, and the new plipper didn't work.

So fired up the laptop, connected the nano as a remote device and used the nanocom software (again for the early nano),

Got the same results, either one or other plipper would only work, and same err message (only this time on the laptop not the nanocom)

Couldn't read the alarm data either (on the laptop software you get a whole rundown of the settings of the 10AS, and the 4 (if programmed) plipper serial numbers.
Works fine on my Td5, so I guess I've answered my own question, but I'm assuming the OBD port must route through the engine ECU somewhere and then on to the 10AS, and as mine is 1) and old nano, and 2) only unlocked for Td5 (engine settings?) is why it didn't work?

Anyone?

cheers
Post #717355 12th Jul 2018 7:49pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16855
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Puma is more complex than the TD5 since comms between the AS10 and ECM are routed through the IPAC which works as a CANbus/serial protocol converter. I can't recall whether the comms between the AS10 and OBD socket are serial or CAN via the IPAC, but overall the whole system has been "enhanced" to include a lot of extra unreliability.
Post #717357 12th Jul 2018 8:08pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
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United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
Ah makes sense.
Post #717360 12th Jul 2018 8:20pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
I think the actual 10AS units are the same, however they communicate with the OBD port via different routes.
On the TD5 I think your diagnostic tool actually talks to the engine ECU which then relays the data to the 10AS or ABS modules.
Whereas on the Puma I think the diag tool talks to the instrument pack which then relays the info to the Engine ECU, ABS or 10AS.

Modern cars are different, all the individual computers are networked on the VAN-Bus/CAN-Bus and diag tools talk to them via the network. However the Puma uses bits of modern tech mated up with old stuff, so the Ipac acts as an interface box.
Post #717377 12th Jul 2018 9:02pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
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United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
AK ok, cheers both.

So I wonder (hypothetically, as it would be a royal PITA to physically do it), one could remove the 10AS from the puma, plug it into the Td5 (that's the pain bit, getting to them) then program a new plipper and refit.

Without altering any other settings on the 10AS (as in, ECU learn or mating or whatever)
Post #717439 13th Jul 2018 7:04am
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Martin
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Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6475
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
The physical interfaces (wiring) for diagnostics on the Td5 and Puma 10AS units are the same. They are wired to the OBD port the same way, they aren't gatewayed via any other ECU.

Diagnostic difficulties would therefore appear to be down to differences in the actual 10AS modules.

Pumas only run the immobiliser serial line (10AS to ECM link) through the gauge pack, not the diagnostic line so it is not acting as a gateway for this either. It's not very clear what it does do! In any case the 2.2 did away with this.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #717442 13th Jul 2018 7:40am
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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2638
 
It was strange that it would program the new plipper and it worked but it unprogrammed the old plipper and that then didn't work. When we then reprogrammed the old plipper it forgot the new one. Seems strange that it was either or not both. New plipper was a genuine from local stealership.
Best I go find a good independent now who can sort this issue out without me having to leave my kidneys behind in payment 110 D250 SE HT
110 USW SOLD
RRE HSE Dynamic Gone, wife killed it
VOLVO XC60 R Dynamic with some toys

Polaris RZR 900XP SOLD
Post #717454 13th Jul 2018 8:40am
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Martin
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Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
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Posts: 6475
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
You do have to program all the fobs at the same time, you can't just add one you must re-pair them all (even on a Td5)  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #717455 13th Jul 2018 8:42am
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Martin
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Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
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Posts: 6475
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
Last page of https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/downlo...-evolution

Under Plip Learn - "up to 4 may be programmed one after the other"  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #717456 13th Jul 2018 8:44am
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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2638
 
Cheers MArtin. Perhaps I'll wait and see if we can get it to learn both plippers at the same time then. Thats if I see Jamie sometime in the near future 110 D250 SE HT
110 USW SOLD
RRE HSE Dynamic Gone, wife killed it
VOLVO XC60 R Dynamic with some toys

Polaris RZR 900XP SOLD
Post #717457 13th Jul 2018 8:47am
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Martin
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Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
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Posts: 6475
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
I seem to remember it honks the horn when the fob is programmed, then you do the next one.

I have done it relatively recently, added a third fob to Dad's 110 (Td5) with a Nanocom - I did need all the fobs though.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW

Last edited by Martin on 13th Jul 2018 10:46am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #717458 13th Jul 2018 8:51am
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769
England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
I just added one to mine and had to program the new one and the existing one so as above I think that’s your problem. Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html
Post #717465 13th Jul 2018 9:20am
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
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United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
I tried adding the "next" plipper after the first one, the horn beeped but then the nanocom (and laptop) gave the err "can't connect with ECU" and wouldn't let me go any further.

Yes, I've done two plippers on my Td5, one straight after the other, worked fine.
Post #717624 14th Jul 2018 9:50am
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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2638
 
Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry Big Cry

Off to local independent now then 110 D250 SE HT
110 USW SOLD
RRE HSE Dynamic Gone, wife killed it
VOLVO XC60 R Dynamic with some toys

Polaris RZR 900XP SOLD
Post #717656 14th Jul 2018 2:14pm
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Cupboard



Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971
United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey
That's weird, when I added my new remote using the https://remotekey.co.uk/ kit it didn't remove my original one, they both worked.
Post #720619 31st Jul 2018 9:19am
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