↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft failure, Forum Survey
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 5 of 31 <123 456 ... 293031>
Print this entire topic · 
BenB8man



Member Since: 22 Mar 2017
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 427

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Yes sorry DSC, that's not been long since I've fitted it. ODO now at 45k so I've not done many miles on the Ashcroft conversion.
Post #718319 18th Jul 2018 8:19am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey
1, vehicle year of manufacture
2011
2, engine type 2.4 or 2.2
2.4
3, is the Defender still running with the original output shaft? (Y/N)
Yes - original
4, vehicle milage at first shaft failure, or current milage on the original shaft if still running.
40000 miles - still OK Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Post #718322 18th Jul 2018 8:25am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 983

Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
DSC-off wrote:
Hi Macfrank,
Thanks for the offer, but I've just spent the last hour sorting the blacklandy data into the same format as my spreadsheet!
...


splendid! Very Happy

Here's mine, although we haven't done a lot of miles so far:

1. 2015
2. 2.2
3. yes
4. 14k miles
Post #718413 18th Jul 2018 6:11pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1343

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
It's taken a while to sort out some errors, but I'm now confident the figures quoted below are accurate for our survey combined with the blacklandy.eu survey.
I'll look into patterns of failure and report on anything that stands out.

2.2 models do seem to have a higher failure rate and at lower miles than 2.4's.
That should be the other way round, bearing in mind the age of them.

2.4 (2007 to 2011) 42% failed or changed.
Average mileage at first failure or change, 56,091 miles.

2.2 (2012 to 2016) 49% failed or changed.
Average mileage at first failure or change, 35,818 miles.



Click image to enlarge




Click image to enlarge


Last edited by DSC-off on 20th Jul 2018 2:20pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #718644 19th Jul 2018 10:08pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
BenB8man



Member Since: 22 Mar 2017
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 427

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Brilliant work yet damning figures. My 8 year old BMW has recently had a few recalls sent through for less serious things. I wonder what it would take for land rover to offer compensation for the inevitable early failure. Maybe a death?
Post #718680 20th Jul 2018 7:51am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pux146



Member Since: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 121

United Kingdom 
1, 2007
2, 2.4
3, yes
4. 35000 miles 2007 2.4 90 fettled & remapped.
Post #718685 20th Jul 2018 8:20am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6260

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
to have such a significant number failing at 25k miles is nothing short of carp. good work.
Post #718693 20th Jul 2018 8:49am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
apt100



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1547

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
^^^ yes, and guess who is on 23k with a few weeks warranty left.
I haven't had chance to look through the responses yet to see if there is a pattern of later vs earlier within the broader 2.2 category. I am fairly sure mine had the "blue goo" so I don't know whether has been shown to help or not.
Post #718783 20th Jul 2018 5:02pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1343

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
^^^ Yes it's been sobering, going through the figures knowing I'm at 18,000 miles.
A few interesting things that have come out:

Repeated failures
We only have figures for 4 vehicles with repeated failure, but they all follow the same pattern.
If a standard shaft is fitted they seem to fail again at similar miles.

Case 1, 25,000 and again at 57,000
Case 2, 23,000 and again at 56,000
Case 3, 13,000 again at 25,000 and again at 41,000
Case 4, 25,000 again at 60,000 and again at 90,000
update
Case5, 30.000 , 50.000 and 70.000


Other transmission issues
Many reported failures also noted problems with clutch, main gearbox or transfer box.
Problems elsewhere seem to affect how long the shaft will last.

Failure rate by year
While at first glance the 2.2 seems to be worse than the 2.4, it gradually gets worse from 2007 to 2010 year.
The next few years are fairly consistent up to 2012. After that I suspect the vehicles are too new to have reached the miles when the problem occurs.
Early failures are reported for 2013 & 2015, so it doesn't look like there is much change.





Click image to enlarge


Ashcroft shafts
I was disappointed with the level of info coming back on these, the limited info we got proves nothing.

Five Ashcroft shafts reported to be still running at 5.000 , 4.000 , 6.000 , 14,000 and 7.000 miles.
update
1 OK at 25.000


While there's no proof from our survey that they do last longer, surely they can't be worse than the standard part.
In the hope they do last longer I will be fitting one when the time comes.

I hope this survey has helped with understanding the extent of the problem.
Good luck to all. Thumbs Up

Jason


Last edited by DSC-off on 21st Jul 2018 8:35am. Edited 2 times in total
Post #718797 20th Jul 2018 6:17pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
apt100



Member Since: 05 Mar 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1547

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Thanks Jason Thumbs Up

Personally I think the 4 repeat failures are probably most significant. Unless they have been very unlucky, it would point more to a systematic problem with the vehicle (such as blackwolf's theory of misalignment) rather than just random batches of poor quality shafts?
Post #718809 20th Jul 2018 6:59pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Fifth Horseman



Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 322

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Just seen the survey - two vehicles to add, the second one with multiple failures.

1-2007
2-2.4
3-Y
4-80k Miles when sold

1-2010
2-2.4
3-N
4- Suspect first shaft ~30k Miles (just before I bought it)
Failed again @ 50k Miles
Failed yet again @ 70k miles - Ashcroft kit fitted
Sold at 95k miles with no further problems
Post #718826 20th Jul 2018 8:54pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
CarlinAbz



Member Since: 15 Sep 2013
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
2013
2.2
N
Failed at 23k (last week)
Post #718931 21st Jul 2018 4:02pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
DSC-off wrote:
Ashcroft shafts
I was disappointed with the level of info coming back on these, the limited info we got proves nothing.


Jason, your survey is great Thumbs Up I've searched the web for 2 weeks before I bought my Ashcroft kit. Nothing to find. I suppose Ashcroft started selling the kits in 2015. Let's wait and see ...
Post #718932 21st Jul 2018 4:05pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
apt100 wrote:
Personally I think the 4 repeat failures are probably most significant. Unless they have been very unlucky, it would point more to a systematic problem with the vehicle (such as blackwolf's theory of misalignment) rather than just random batches of poor quality shafts?
Systematic problem with driver or use of vehicle also possible ...
Post #718939 21st Jul 2018 4:34pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6260

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
at circa 25k my 2nd shaft was fitted along with a new gearbox so either very unlucky or the mis-alignment issue possibly doesn't hold much water at the shaft failed again at about 60k

what I have more recently found out is the transfer wasn't operating as it should and was regularly locking up even though diff lock light wasn't coming on nor was lever moved over to engage diff lock. for me this is an area worth investigating. could others have been experiencing something similar?

I can only assuming this was also the contributing factor for me having to replace bushes at about 30-50k miles and had un even tread wear?
Post #718962 21st Jul 2018 6:10pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 5 of 31 <123 456 ... 293031>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums