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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Another Td5 not starting thread :-(
The night before, everything was fine on my DCPU, but the morning after it was reluctant to start. It then ran on <5 cylinders for about 10 sec and died. It hasn't started since.

I noticed that the OSF chassis rail was wet with diesel, so I'm assuming that the fuel pressure regulator is on the way out, but will that prevent starting? The low pressure fuel pump is working fine and will happily squirt diesel from the front feed pipe if it's removed. It has done several prime cycles since reassembly.

The Nanocom reported several error codes:

2.8 Ambient pressure circuit (log)
4.3 Coolant temp circuit
10.6 MIL lamp drive open load (log)
10.7 Glowplug lamp drive open load

Both the MIL and glowplug lamps are working fine. Since clearing the fault codes none have returned.

The Nanocom reports coolant temp to be 23C and the ambient pressure to be 102KPa (1.02 bar) so those both seem OK for a non-running engine and suggests that those sensors are OK. Whilst cranking it reports ~245rpm. Another recent Td5 non-starter thread reported that the crank rpm needs to be 300 before the injectors will fire - is there any truth in that? The starter motor sounds just like it always did when the starting was OK. Given that the Nanocom is getting an RPM and doesn't report a crank position sensor circuit error I'm assuming that to be OK too.

I'm running out of ideas - what have I missed?

Thanks - John


Last edited by Intercept on 7th Jul 2018 6:28pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #716603 7th Jul 2018 4:42pm
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Mash



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 1674

Guernsey 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Nato Green
Is it leaking fuel with the ignition on? If not I had several instances where mine would fail to start and eventually after holding down the throttle it did fire up, Each time I had this fault I would strip the injector loom to find it covered in oil, a quick clean and it would be perfect for a while, I then purchased a new loom and sealed it correctly. This worked for a while but once again I had issues, upon inspection the loom and injectors were clean and oil free. The only options I had left were the FPR or injector rings and as I had a set of rings in my toolbox it made sense to look at them.


This is what I found:



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



I cleaned up the injectors with a copper brush and fitted new rings and washers, she has run beautiful since. The job is only a few hours slow time work. 90 wolf - Jasmin http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39408.html
90 V8 - Maggie http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic42564.html
110 TD5 - Buggsy http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic59029.html
52HG25 lightweight https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic72342.html
D3 Hse - Fiona
Capri 2l S - Anna

Think I might have a problem............
Post #716609 7th Jul 2018 5:59pm
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gtmotorsport



Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 97

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Zermatt Silver
Can second the value in changing the injector seals and washers. I used genuine items and borrowed the correct puller to extract each one. Just take your time and have a good read of the workshop manual and it's easy enough
Post #716613 7th Jul 2018 6:38pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Mash wrote:
Is it leaking fuel with the ignition on?

No. Right now there is no obvious fuel leakage - and no drips on the floor.

I replaced the injector loom about 1 year ago due to oil in the red ECU plug and have checked it several times since and found very little oil. Thanks for the suggestion about the injector rings - so far I've not looked at them. I'll also try starting with the throttle at max to see if that makes any difference.
Post #716614 7th Jul 2018 6:48pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Check the pipe that runs along side the head, it has metal ends but the centre section is rubber. Mine split and only leaked out with throttle on, you will have to take the engine cover off to see it. Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html
Post #716617 7th Jul 2018 7:31pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
mk1collector wrote:
Check the pipe that runs along side the head, it has metal ends but the centre section is rubber. Mine split and only leaked out with throttle on, you will have to take the engine cover off to see it.

Thanks Ray - I can see the pipe. The front union looks like fun to get to Sad Would a split in that pipe prevent startup?

Is there any truth in the "300 rpm before injectors fire" comment in the other thread? I don't much like the look of the starter motor top bolt. I guess there's a knack to undoing it?

Maybe I'll try some easy-start into the air intake. That'd boost the cranking...
Post #716640 7th Jul 2018 9:35pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Yay - it's started! Smile But very reluctantly - and not because I've done anything since starting this thread. However, its lumpy and sounds like its running on <5 cylinders. Despite still having no error codes the Nanocom seems to confirm this - see photo below - which suggests that 4 & 5 are odd compared to 1/2/3. What could cause this? 4+5 injectors not firing - maybe loom failure? Head gasket? The latter would seem unlikely as it has no other HG failure symptoms


Click image to enlarge


Last edited by Intercept on 9th Jul 2018 10:03pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #716646 7th Jul 2018 10:53pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Well...

I've stripped and cleaned the injector loom (no improvement), checked the red ECU plug for oil (none found), checked inside the ECU for oil (none found), spoken to local indy, located the Crank Position Sensor for removal & cleaning (no improvement). As yet I've not tried removing the injectors to replace the washers & seals - for such an expensive part I'm not sure about using the pry bar / water pump pliers / allen key extraction methods. The sump oil hasn't risen and doesn't smell of diesel so I expect that the injector O-rings are OK.

However, tonight it fired up (reluctantly) and ran lumpily for about 30 mins until I switched it off. The video link shows it tonight:

https://youtu.be/uQfEPjD5Ubo

Does anyone have any further thoughts? The local indy has offered to visit with his proper LR diagnostic kit, so I'll probably get that done first before towing it to his (already overflowing) car park.

Thanks - John
Post #716948 9th Jul 2018 9:08pm
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Mash



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 1674

Guernsey 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Nato Green
My o-rings were fine it was the copper washers that failed. All I used was a slide hammer on the correct area to attach the special Land Rover one, I could only get one leg on but they all came out fine with no damage. 90 wolf - Jasmin http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39408.html
90 V8 - Maggie http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic42564.html
110 TD5 - Buggsy http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic59029.html
52HG25 lightweight https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic72342.html
D3 Hse - Fiona
Capri 2l S - Anna

Think I might have a problem............
Post #716951 9th Jul 2018 9:16pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Progress report: the in-tank fuel pump is delivering <1.5 bar of pressure. It should be 4 bar at the FPR temperature sensor port. All filters are OK so it's time for a new WFX000260 pump/sender assembly from VDO.
Post #718524 19th Jul 2018 8:29am
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Big Cry they aren’t cheap. Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html
Post #718528 19th Jul 2018 8:38am
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6026

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
Pump is the same as a discovery 2..... just the float arm is different... takes about 30 seconds to unclip it and fit it onto the new pump.

Disco 2 pumps are generally cheaper than defender....


edit: and I just googled them and the price seems to have come down a lot for pattern parts... and from John craddock (as a quick example) the 110 pump was about £20 cheaper than disco! Banging Head
Post #718534 19th Jul 2018 9:38am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

Intercept wrote:
Progress report: the in-tank fuel pump is delivering <1.5 bar of pressure. It should be 4 bar at the FPR temperature sensor port. All filters are OK so it's time for a new WFX000260 pump/sender assembly from VDO.


i beat you will find that filter to bottom of pump is block with black gunk


Click image to enlarge






check for black gunk at bottom tank too

http://www.covalaquasolve.co.uk/need-diese...amination/
Post #718552 19th Jul 2018 12:00pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Quote:
I bet you will find that filter to bottom of pump is block with black gunk

Absolutely right. Garage just reported lots of black gunk which is being flushed out right now. They recommended the use of BP Ultimate or equivalent premium diesel because apparently they include anti-fungal anti-algae ingredients.
Post #718562 19th Jul 2018 1:21pm
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Intercept



Member Since: 27 Feb 2017
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 587

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
diesel_jim wrote:
I just googled them and the price seems to have come down a lot for pattern parts...

A "Made in China" version of the WFX000260 is available for £49. I'm going for the VDO version which is 4x more expensive but will hopefully last >4x longer.
Post #718563 19th Jul 2018 1:25pm
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