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300TDi CSW Phil



Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 746

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green
Funny clutch Behaviour on 300tdi
This is a not so short story but I will try and make it so.

Once upon a time I had a really stiff clutch pedal (as advised by other 300 owners)

I lubed all the pivot points and it got a bit better ..... fairly happy carry on using it.

This week it seems to have gone really soft (or my leg has been transplanted)

So the position now. All of the clutch controlling action happens in the bottom inch or so of the pedal travel. Biting point to clutch fully engaged. The top of the pedal travel is just springyness from the return spring.

Has anyone got any pointers as to what may be going on please.

Regards

Phil 1995 300 Tdi Epsom Green - It's a keeper.
Wide Track Sankey- In bits- Gone to a new home
M0XQS
Post #586073 18th Dec 2016 1:57pm
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ian series 1



Member Since: 17 Nov 2014
Location: south
Posts: 3127

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Bonatti Grey
You may just need to adjust the master cylinder rod,
or worse case could be the dreaded clutch fork starting to wear through!

Try adjustment first. 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"

Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered.
Post #586074 18th Dec 2016 2:02pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2519

Scotland 
Check the fluid level. Also check for leaks, generally the master cylinder leaks clutch fluid down the pedal inside the vehicle and the slave cylinder out of the bottom of the bellhousing drain hole (unless there's a wading plug fitted). It's also worth checking the flexible hose to ensure it hasn't failed.

If all fluid levels and hydraulics are okay, it could be a problem within the bellhousing. Not much one can do about that (beyond an endoscope inspection) without removing engine/gearbox unfortunately.

Pedal adjustment could be another suspect, though I would think that would come on gradually rather than a sudden change.

In my experience sudden loss of clutch function (i.e. biting point goes right to the bottom then disappears totally) is down to failure of one or both of the hydraulic cylinders. I've had a few journeys where I've had to drive it home with no clutch which, while quite good fun, is not really very good for the gearbox!
Post #586075 18th Dec 2016 2:04pm
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sharkey964



Member Since: 05 Oct 2014
Location: On a muddy track
Posts: 570

France 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
I would concur with Retro,just adding,if master or slave cylinder has gone,replace the other one aswell,as they usualy go within a short time of each other.
Thumbs Up
Marc
Post #586127 18th Dec 2016 5:31pm
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300TDi CSW Phil



Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 746

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green
This is probably (ok almost certainly) a belt and braces approach as the defender is relied upon for many duties including work, the family and towing decent sized trailers with stuff for scouts.

How of much of a job would it be to replace the clutch (its about 40k old and fitted when I had a recon gearbox fitted by ashcrofts), the clutch fork both cyclinders and the hose that connects them.

In my head it makes sense as I dont know the history of most of the parts. The vehicle is coming up to 140k miles and 22 years old and for all I know a lot of it is original and possibly tired. 1995 300 Tdi Epsom Green - It's a keeper.
Wide Track Sankey- In bits- Gone to a new home
M0XQS
Post #586139 18th Dec 2016 6:13pm
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sharkey964



Member Since: 05 Oct 2014
Location: On a muddy track
Posts: 570

France 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
I set aside a full day to change a clutch.8 to 9 hrs.
Thats droping the gearbox.
Changing the clutch,fork,bearing etc is not a big job,once the gearbox is split from the engine.It's that that takes the time.
Marc
Post #586164 18th Dec 2016 7:38pm
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1758

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
Had my gearbox in and out in a day with 3 of us. Had an engine crane to take the load though, which definitely helped.

Could probably do it on a trolley jack though.
Post #586327 19th Dec 2016 11:54am
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2519

Scotland 
Wouldn't change the clutch unless it needed it. They will do a lot more than 40k.

That said, I changed mine this time last year - not sure how many miles it had done but it was at least 100k as that's what I had put on it since purchase. Was just starting to get a bit juddery (though still functional) so I changed it as I had a few other jobs that required engine out to do, on removal the friction plate wasn't anything like worn out.
Post #586401 19th Dec 2016 7:06pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Original description sounds just like my faulty slave cylinder.

Easy to replace on the 300Tdi apparently? (compared to the puma!)

And yes, even though I saw no leaks down the pedal, I swapped out the master also. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #586416 19th Dec 2016 8:07pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
This is a timely thread! Jumped into my 90 today (not driven it for over a week) and thought 'this clutch is biting very low'. Looked down at the floor to see a little damp patch under the pedal. Whipped the cap of the master cylinder to find it virtually empty so topped it up and normal service resumed. That's a job for the new year then Rolling Eyes Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #586427 19th Dec 2016 9:01pm
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Blackhat90



Member Since: 31 Dec 2016
Location: Forfar
Posts: 86

Scotland 1995 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Epsom Green
Landrvr/anorack " when replacing the clutch master cylinder , take out the whole pedal box, as theres a rod and nut to slacken, and space is minimal, you can flip pedal to access with socket, Thumbs Up
Post #589277 1st Jan 2017 8:00pm
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300TDi CSW Phil



Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 746

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green
Well it all seems to be working now.

Thanks for the tip about removing the pedal box, don't think it would have been possible without.

Master and slave cylinders replaced as well as the short flexible hose for good measure and joy ride I mean test drive undertaken. It feels better than it has felt in 5 years. Thumbs Up

Just not entirely sure whether it has bled out properly as it seems to have taken very little fluid to fill it. 1995 300 Tdi Epsom Green - It's a keeper.
Wide Track Sankey- In bits- Gone to a new home
M0XQS
Post #589693 3rd Jan 2017 11:53am
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

Slight thread resurrection.... I did a search for clutch biting point and found this, which is a pretty exact match to the issue I'm now having.

I'm just like Phil - 300tdi, and pretty suddenly I've noticed that the clutch biting point has dropped to just above the floor. In hindsight it's maybe been dropping for a few weeks, just that it's not got to a really noticeable stage.

So I've read through the replies here. I've checked the fluid level and it's absolutely fine - though there was some black 'gunk' looking very like old oil on the underside of the filler cap?

I had noticed, over the last month or two an occasional, but regular 'groaning' noise when starting off, in either forward or reverse. It's maybe doing it during other gear changes too, just that I can't hear it at that stage. Does this point to the fork rather than anything else?

I've no idea at all when the clutch would have been changed/looked at last. I keep on meaning to sort out the folder of paperwork and receipts and get a grip on the timeline of stuff. The gearbox was changed at about 65k, now done over 220k, but there's a niggling memory that something has been done since then.

Ta. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #709474 27th May 2018 8:23pm
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