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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7873   
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Following with interest. I have read several threads on this topic but frankly, I soon get lost!
 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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28th Apr 2018 8:00am |
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| williamthedog Member Since: 29 Dec 2012 Location: south wales Posts: 3441 
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You should get hold of a copy of vehicle dependent expedition guide any edition and have a good read. It's a really useful book
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28th Apr 2018 10:10am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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Sorry to come to this a week late.
I've used a few things and the best I've come across so far is Locus maps. It uses the Open Street Map data which is just about the best going and it stores the maps as vector files. I've used Backcountry Navigator and the app was OK but the maps weren't vectors. I don't get on well with Viewranger but I know a lot of people do. Gaia is also well reviewed but I've never used it. I've travelled with people using Globe GPS and unless it's improved substantially I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Firstly mapping data. There are a few systems out there that use scanned and calibrated versions of paper maps. Typically a mixture of IGN and old Soviet stuff, the maps are OK but missing more modern stuff and the legibility depends on the quality of the original map and how well it was scanned. Some of the big names (like Garmin) have their own maps but increasingly these are based on things like OSM. Open Street Map data is very good these days. It's not perfect, but it's the least imperfect that I've used. Comparing it to OS map data in the UK there are some things that OS has and OSM doesn't and vice versa, but generally they overlap well. The key difference being that OS has some sort of rights guidance and OSM doesn't, so whilst there may be a track marked on an OSM map that doesn't mean you can actually legally go down it. OS maps do mark things like byways and ORPAs more clearly, however the information isn't actually that reliable and a lot of routes are marked that you're not actually allowed to drive on so whichever mapping you use you need to do research. The are are a few good reasons that it's important to use vector maps. The first is size. With image maps (scanned paper maps like GPS Globe or just images of a digital map like Backcountry Navigator uses) you end up with ginormous files. Typically on mobile devices you'll have a file size limit of ~4GB which either limits the number of "zoom" levels you can have or the area that the map covers. You can have multiple files covering sections of a country for instance but they rapidly become unwieldy and changing between them as you fall off the edge of a map is irritating. Vector maps take up a lot less space so you can easily fit an entire country in to one file and loading/scrolling/zooming is much quicker and smoother. The next is "zoomability". Your GPS receiver can do up to about 3m accuracy and reliably 10m. If you're in an area with lots of tracks going every direction it's very handy to be able to work out where you are and zoom right in to a map. A vector map you can do that and it remains clear. An image gets all fuzzy very quickly. It's like using a magnifying glass on a street atlas rather than have a map with genuinely different scales. OS data (and many other equivalents) are basically available in "road", "large area outdoor" (1:50k) and "zoomed in outdoor" (1:25k). OSM is available in whatever scale you like. Some examples, all screenshots from Locus using either the Locus map (based on OSM) or the 1:25k OS map. First we have a reasonably zoomed out view is the OS map. You can see there's a byway marked which disappears in to a wood on the bottom right corner. The map is fairly busy but detailed.  Click image to enlarge Zooming in on the wood, it's not that clear but we can see the byway goes north and the others are tracks/footpaths. Click image to enlarge Now the information from Locus of the area is much clearer, but there's no indication of rights of way. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge The "zoomed out" view is less cluttered: Click image to enlarge But it still has lots of detailed useful stuff: Click image to enlarge Further reading. Chris Scott. His books are excellent and has done a review of some maps here: https://sahara-overland.com/2014/12/27/morocco-maps/ if you're wanting to plan some routes yourself then he's got lots of information about Morocco. Finally https://www.vibraction.org/ will sell you French route guides for interesting places. The will give you GPX files that go with the routes but they're not all that detailed. If you can a French speaking copilot then following the written instructions is the best way to do it. If you don't or are driving the route backwards then a bit of sanity checking on a GPS is required. This picture I made a while back sort of explains what I'm on about. Vibraction will give you the points marked as black + symbols on this "high quality" drawing. Just joining the dots will give you the darker blue line. When you come to the track, in brown, travelling from the left you will initially think that you should take the right hand route because the blue line is saying straight on and the track goes straight on. The reality is on this occasion that the right hand route is a dead end, and you should have turned left. So when following a Vibraction route I'll go through it and add extra points (the green + symbols) to guide me in a more useful way via the light blue line in the lower image. That's easy to do at camp the night before but difficult when you're by yourself in a moving vehicle. Click image to enlarge Lastly, what device to use. I use a Samsung Galaxy Note 4. It's fine. The advantage of it being a phone is that you can take it with you if you go for a walk, but it's got a smaller screen. If you're only ever going to use it fixed in to a vehicle then a tablet has a bigger screen so might be better. The reason I say might is that I can mount the phone in front of me somewhere that isn't in the way but is easy to see and reach. You can't do that with a tablet, which has to be mounted far over to the side somewhere. The big advantage of a tablet is giving you a large scale overview but you're never going to beat a paper map for the big picture. Hope that's of some use  |
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5th May 2018 11:18am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3996 
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Thanks Cupboard, very helpful. For me, I won’t be using whatever system in the UK, so the OS rights of way info is a non-issue. Based on what you have written my preference would be for a vector map system, but probably on a small tablet. I’ve got some ideas about mounting. I assume I could down load the same software on a phone for out of car use, or do you pay per device? I will have a look at Locus Maps. I did download Gaia but haven’t had time to play with it yet, not even sure if that is vector maps or not.
I have Chris Scott’s book on Morocco, as you say, very good. It’s likely we will go to Corsica and/or Portugal before we head back to Morocco, so need to find some info on legal tracks for there. Vibration sounds good, but I don’t speak more than tourist French so How practical they will be I don’t know. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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6th May 2018 10:04am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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Google translate
Hover your phone over the text and you can get enough of an idea of what's going on to be enjoyable. The books are a mixture of being a guide book to the area and route guidance. At each junction there's a little map which is nice if you have a copilot but unusable if you're by yourself. I tend to plot the route each evening and have a read about the area, then the book gets put away until the next evening. |
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6th May 2018 1:52pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3996
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Cupboard - I've been having a play about with Locus Maps, but I am finding it incredibly frustrating to use. I have been unable to find a vector map that can be downloaded for use off line. The OSM on line Classic map looks good to me. On googling it, there is all sorts of talk of needing plug ins and pointing to file servers if I want to use OSM off line, which sounds like a total headache.
We are now planning to go to the Spanish Pyrenees for our next trip, so I was using that as a scenario. Can you offer any help as to how I can get an off line vector map for that area? 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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30th May 2018 10:18pm |
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| ChrisCM Member Since: 10 Jun 2013 Location: Cornwall uk Posts: 572 
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I have 3 systems, a Tom Tom (camping and camper edition) which I use for on road guidance, and as it’s pre loaded with loads of campsites we have used it on a number of occasions to find a last minute campsite.
I use maps.me (free) for general, off road navigation combined with Wikiloc, as with Cupboards Locus Maps they are based on Open Street Map data, one major disadvantage of Maps.me is it they doesn’t show contours whereas Wikiloc does. With Wikiloc you can download and upload trails. We’ve used both in the Pyrenees and found them very useful. Thirdly, mainly used for walking and biking, I have a Sat Map hand held GPS, this is loaded with GB 1:50000 os map, I also have a 1:25000 Pyrenees map for it, also based on Open Street Map data, I’ve yet to use this in the Pyrenees, so this summer will be its first test. On the subject of Mappping data, there is nothing worldwide, imho, to compare with UK os maps. 2010 Defender 110 Station Wagon, Santorini Black. |
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31st May 2018 9:24am |
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| ken Member Since: 18 Aug 2009 Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !! Posts: 4328
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Fugawi
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31st May 2018 12:17pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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Erm, that seems far too complicated! You don't need any plugins or anything, just go in to the maps store and buy a map of the area. From memory they're something like 50p for a country. When I get home I'll do some screenshots. |
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31st May 2018 12:26pm |
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| 8619simon Member Since: 05 Nov 2016 Location: North Wales Posts: 222  
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+1 Above. I use Locus Maps Pro now having tried quite a few others. I find it accurate and the quality of the maps to be very good. Didn't miss a beat in Europe and also Morocco last year.
As Cupboard says you go into maps, make sure you are in the "Offline" tab and then hit the + button bottom right and select "Offline maps download". This takes you to the Locus Store. Select the region you want, in this case "Europe" and then "Spain". Once you have selected Spain it will bring up a load of different map products you can use. I would recommend the "LoMaps and Addresses", these are very cheap and updated regularly as they are based on OpenStreetmap data. I tend to use Garmin BaseCamp and Google Earth to plan routes and then import them into Locus Maps to follow on my phone or Android tablet. We are off to the Pyrenees this Summer too so I'm in the middle of sorting routes etc.. The Wikiloc site (https://www.wikiloc.com/) has loads of gpx routes to use for a starter. Hope this helps... Simon |
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31st May 2018 10:31pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3996
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Thanks both, as you may have suspected, I was doing it wrong. I was in the list of on line maps, finding a map I liked and then attempting to download it, which doesn’t see to work for most of them. I’ll have another go. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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31st May 2018 10:48pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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Open the menu (the triple = in the top left) and select "Maps", you'll come to this screen:
Click image to enlarge Click the "+" and "Offline maps download". Click image to enlarge And then choose your region: Click image to enlarge and country: Click image to enlarge You'll see in these examples that I've already bought the Spain maps, and that the entire country LoMap is less of a download than the IGN map of one area. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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1st Jun 2018 8:40am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
Having worked in hostile parts of planet we live on and i mean out side uk as part job training proved this involved being aware of your surrounding, medical training how to treat gun shot wounds, knife wounds, and allot more and Navigation then tech has failed
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1st Jun 2018 9:53am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 3996
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Cupboard - Thanks for that. All sorted now. And as a bonus I got three free LoMaps as an introductory offer. So All of France and Spain are downloaded
2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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1st Jun 2018 10:32am |
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