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Home > Maintenance & Modifications > School me on rear towing/recovery point options - so many!
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
AndrewS wrote:
Please don't use Jate Rings for off road recovery. Have a look to see what fixes a Jate Ring to the vehicle and you will see why they are not suitable.
They are simple lashing points.


This looks well lashed:
Thumbs Up
Post #693773 16th Mar 2018 2:25pm
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2062

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Pennine Grey
That's a really cool pic Very Happy Thumbs Up
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.
Post #693795 16th Mar 2018 4:50pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
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Kuwait 
The eventual solution:


Click image to enlarge


Thumbs Up Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #693832 16th Mar 2018 7:27pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Supacat wrote:
AndrewS wrote:
Please don't use Jate Rings for off road recovery. Have a look to see what fixes a Jate Ring to the vehicle and you will see why they are not suitable.
They are simple lashing points.


This looks well lashed:
Thumbs Up


Exactly. JATE actually stands for Joint Air Transport Establishment. So long as you use quality forged rings they're plenty strong enough for recovery. The front mounting points are deliberately double plated for them. The rears should have a tube welded into the chassis rail, but not all civilian chassis have this from the factory.
Post #693839 16th Mar 2018 7:38pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Memory is funny but I could have sworn that the jate rings on my mates 110 interfered with his rear mud guard bracket...

Edit: also, I can imagine recovery forces being more than the mass of the vehicle/4... and at more extreme angles...

Not saying yay or nay, just sayin... Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #693842 16th Mar 2018 7:43pm
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mikeh501



Member Since: 07 Jan 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1142

United Kingdom 
agreed, the forces involved in recovery can be much much that just a straight pull.

Also, I doubt that landie under the chinook is using the same jate points under the vehicle. wouldnt be very stable!!
Post #693851 16th Mar 2018 8:10pm
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Mash



Member Since: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 1674

Guernsey 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Nato Green
The JATE rings are fitted to military Wolfs for the main reason of heli lifts as shown, new modifications have come out and a dual set of JATEDU rings with additional strength plates welded on the rear are now in place for vehicles that are carried by this method often. There was an article in LRO/LRM a while back Thumbs Up 90 wolf - Jasmin http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39408.html
90 V8 - Maggie http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic42564.html
110 TD5 - Buggsy http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic59029.html
52HG25 lightweight https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic72342.html
D3 Hse - Fiona
Capri 2l S - Anna

Think I might have a problem............
Post #693895 16th Mar 2018 9:51pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
agentmulder wrote:
Edit: also, I can imagine recovery forces being more than the mass of the vehicle/4... and at more extreme angles...

Not saying yay or nay, just sayin...


You have obviously never seen a chinook pilot use the full operating envelope whilst carrying an underslung load - the forces generated are more than the static load/mass of the vehicle.

I'm really puzzled as to why anyone would want to put more trust in an online seller of a lump of laser cut unidentified steel than a product that has been designed & tested for vehicle specific military applications where the outcome of a failed load is far more than a red face.

Maybe if they came in bright colours, was more sparkly or had more pub bragging rights; instead they just do the job, no fuss, no effort & not particularly expensive.
Post #693945 17th Mar 2018 7:42am
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Devon-Rover



Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 905

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
agentmulder wrote:
The eventual solution:


Click image to enlarge


Thumbs Up


That does look smart Thumbs Up I'm very tempted by one to replace my plow Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest
Post #693952 17th Mar 2018 8:28am
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Supacat wrote:

You have obviously never seen a chinook pilot use the full operating envelope whilst carrying an underslung load - the forces generated are more than the static load/mass of the vehicle.

I'm really puzzled as to why anyone would want to put more trust in an online seller of a lump of laser cut unidentified steel than a product that has been designed & tested for vehicle specific military applications where the outcome of a failed load is far more than a red face.

Maybe if they came in bright colours, was more sparkly or had more pub bragging rights; instead they just do the job, no fuss, no effort & not particularly expensive.


Well, Brendan 'identified' it and that was enough for me. Sometimes you just gotta trust things right?

... and like I said, the last time I saw JATE rings installed they appeared to clash with the mud guard brackets of the vehicle in question.

I did want it in high-vis, first responder livery so people would think I was a champ but they only had bulk/batch/discount-dark-grey available - otherwise known as 'tactical' Laughing Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #693958 17th Mar 2018 8:52am
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Devon-Rover wrote:
I'm very tempted by one to replace my plow


The drop plate is still a major plow when it's on! But it lives in a box in the rear now along with the shackle and billet/point so it's even less fussy Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #693959 17th Mar 2018 8:56am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
mikeh501 wrote:
agreed, the forces involved in recovery can be much much that just a straight pull.

Also, I doubt that landie under the chinook is using the same jate points under the vehicle. wouldnt be very stable!!

Apparently it is...this is the current (2015) version:

Click image to enlarge
Post #693961 17th Mar 2018 8:59am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Mash wrote:
The JATE rings are fitted to military Wolfs for the main reason of heli lifts as shown, new modifications have come out and a dual set of JATEDU rings with additional strength plates welded on the rear are now in place for vehicles that are carried by this method often. There was an article in LRO/LRM a while back Thumbs Up


I've seen them fitted to the front of Vixens but can't find a photo of the rear arrangement:

Click image to enlarge


but the loading sheet for it shows that only one of the two Jate rings is used:


and again with the RWMIK Plus:

Click image to enlarge


Don't suppose you have the article still?

Searching through my documents, I've found the Modification Instruction for the double Jate rings and it states: "This instruction details the fitting of additional lashing eyes to the front bumper and to the rear chassis rail. This modification is only applicable to those units who would be considering transporting the equipment as internal load by Air."

Click image to enlarge


Last edited by Supacat on 17th Mar 2018 10:24am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #693973 17th Mar 2018 9:41am
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Keith5



Member Since: 27 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 352

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black
Has anybody fitted one of these? I'm keen to see an installed photo.

http://www.4x4overlander.com/product/defen...ery-point/

Thanks Keith
Post #693979 17th Mar 2018 9:55am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8578

United Kingdom 
If people want to get an idea about forces involved in recovery have a read of Billy Vista Recovery Bible here


Now I do not expect people to get the calculator out and remember the various components of the formula every time they attach a winch/recovery strap.

Yes forces can be 3 times vehicle weight so kit and recovery points plus technique need to be up to the job in hand.

If doing a 'snatch' type recovery rather then a steady pull i.e. winch etc, that peak F= Ma (Force = mass x (de)acceleration) so selection of material/equipment is important.


Brendan
Post #693989 17th Mar 2018 10:31am
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