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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
200tdi - slow - not pulling great/pump tuning does nothing!?
Hey guys
Full disclosure - My Def 90 200tdi pulls like a train!
Having just sorted my Disco 200 and MOT'd it i'm using it as a bit of a get around at the moment. So this is asking for Disco help, i'm sure you'll all be ok with it! Wink
I'm sure I remember my Disco being quite nippy and at the moment it's performance is rather lacklustre. It's been sat for the best part of a year. It pulls ok through all the gears but when I get to about 60mph and slip into 5th gear it's totally gutless and if anything slows down to 50 rather than pulls up towards 70. I'm aiming to have it cruise at 70 comfortably. It's got its standard LT77 and 230 transfer box, no mods. 265/75 BFG Muds so nothing radical.
On the Def 200 I did some fuel pump mods and I remember that the changes when screwing down the top torx nut by a turn or so that the different was quite obvious. I thought maybe that the Disco just needed a tweak up as it's settings have never been touched. I was surprised that when counterwise turning the torx screw in, that there was very little difference in performance. Also, I took the pump cover apart and rotated the boost diaphragm about 90 degress clockwise and contrary to my experience on my 90, the car would barely pull away without stalling. On the 90 it was practically wheelspinning to get moving. Little extra black smoke either. What i'm getting at is that on my 90 settings changes made a really obvious difference as expected and I spent ages getting them spot on - and that 90 is seriously gutsy but fairly clean!

This suggests to me a fuelling/boost problem. I can hear the turbo kicking in but I am wondering if the pump is not having the diaphragm sucked in by vacuum thus no pin rotation/dynamic fuelling working?

I have put the settings back to standard and again little difference in how it runs (which is absolutely fine in anything apart from 5th!)

I plan to change both fuel filters and the air filter today. While I'm at Keith Gott should I be picking up a new turbo-pump hose... and anything else?

Experience and suggestion welcome, please help! I'm planning to use this vehicle for most of summer as my get around and it really needs to cruise at about 70 and be able to get up hills!
Post #630684 12th Jun 2017 8:26am
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Harry.O



Member Since: 25 Jul 2014
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 704

United Kingdom 1989 Defender 90 300 Tdi ST Nato Green
A few things to check once you've done the filters, small rubber pipe to turbo actuator and intercooler pipes for leaks or internal de-lamination. Is the fuel sedimeter still fitted and corroded/blocked? Also check that the diaphragm inside the FIP doesn't have a hole and that there is no corrosion on the pin below that could be causing it to stick.

Have you got a boost gauge that you could plumb in to monitor pressures?
Post #630693 12th Jun 2017 8:54am
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
Cheers for the reply.
I will replace the filters which should replace the sedimentor at the same time / i'll give it all a good clean up!
I think it may well be a hole in the turbo-pump pipe but hard to tell parked up! I gave the diaphragm a good inspection and it seems fine and the pin itself was in good nick with just a teeny bit of corrosion which I've cleaned off and it still had a small blob of light grease on the taper.
Intercooler hoses are proper silicone replacements, not that old, but again i'll remove, check and seal again.

I don't have a spare boost gauge for this motor, the 90 has all the bells and whistles! If a few replacement pipes don't fix it i'll order and install one. I have a spare EGT gauge that I can put in the manifold too but to be fair didn't really want to add a dash pod to this one as it's a Camel Trophy rep and not really in keeping with what I'm going for with it.

Cheers!
Post #630695 12th Jun 2017 8:58am
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yostumpy



Member Since: 01 Aug 2010
Location: n/kent
Posts: 327

also, if your lift pump has a screw on the top, unscrew this, and clean all the crud out of the gauze filter. you've probably got diesel bug. so stick some additive in the tank to clean out / kill the algea, run it thro, then change filter again. ( It looks like a black slime (thin worms) inside your filter. If the filter is clean, then you prob don't have the BUG!
Post #630735 12th Jun 2017 11:26am
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
Ok... new lift pump. New turbo-pump hose. New fuel filters. And the state of the sedimentor was shocking. New air filter for good measure.
I'll see what it's like on the way home! It sounds good now I've run fresh fuel through.
I noticed the old turbo pump hose was routed a weird way and that the bolt that holds the eyelet end was rotated in such a way when tight that it would have not been open to the hose at 90degrres so have set that so it's got a clear path.


Totally rank.


Click image to enlarge
Post #630773 12th Jun 2017 2:09pm
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yostumpy



Member Since: 01 Aug 2010
Location: n/kent
Posts: 327

how was it on the trip home?
Post #630977 13th Jun 2017 8:26am
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
Better - it's running a lot smoother with all of those changes and parts cleaned and serviced.
That said it's still a bit flat in 5th. Im not sure if I'm expecting too much - what should a Disco 200 be able to do on BFG Mud 285s, 2" lift and a roof rack etc on it? I thought it would be good for cruising a flat motorway at 70 - as it stands it can only even hit 70 on a downhill run!

My 90 despite having a lower geared transfer box can still hit 70 even though by then the revs are too high to want to drive like that. My suspicion is that if I had the 90's engine in the Disco that it would easily cruise to 75. The 90 is so keen in comparison.
Post #631330 14th Jun 2017 1:31pm
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2062

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Pennine Grey
With the 285s and the 1.2 transfer box I suspect you are horribly over geared. I would suggest trying a 1.4 Defender transfer box to lower the overall ratios.
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.
Post #631334 14th Jun 2017 1:59pm
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
How can I tell what transfer box is in it?
Or are all 200tdi Discos (93 in my case) on 1.2s?
Gearing feels quite well suited to the car in the first 4 gears!
Post #631335 14th Jun 2017 2:01pm
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yostumpy



Member Since: 01 Aug 2010
Location: n/kent
Posts: 327

Not forgetting to mention, that with 285's not only are you overgeared, but your speedo reading will be wrong also, confusing the matter. Folks that swap the tbox on a defender for a 1.2 version, don't usually get better mpg. The engine has an efficient rev range, and by uping the gearing, you either fall short of that efficient range, OR go faster to keep in the range, BUT by doing so you are pushing much more air out of the way, which is hard work.
So you're overgeared disco is ...er. struggling. Borrow some std wheels and see what its like then.
Post #631355 14th Jun 2017 4:17pm
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Mo Murphy



Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2062

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Pennine Grey
If you go to Ashcroft website, it explains how to identify your transfer box ratio from the box's number. If the transfer box is original then in all likelihood it is 1.2 ratio.
Defenders and Discoverys have the same overall gear ratios when standard. The Discovery had a higher ratio transfer box to compensate for the smaller tyres which were fitted as standard.
Land Rover went to a lot of trouble originally to get the gearing right and I've always found it best to stay with those overall ratios.
HTH
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.
Post #631367 14th Jun 2017 4:47pm
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Kit



Member Since: 12 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 1110

United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Scotia Grey
Have you checked if any of the brakes are binding? 1993 200 Tdi 90 CSW
1956 Series 1 Hard-top
1958 Series 1 Soft-top
Post #631422 14th Jun 2017 8:23pm
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benniferj



Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
I may try and find some standard wheels and give them a go just for comparison. But i'm unlikely to actually change back from 285s... they're as small as i'd want to go for an all rounder.

I'm aware of the speedo issue and I am taking speedo readings as far as this thread is concerned from an accurate sat nav showing the correct speed.

I will check the transfer box as to what ratio it is, maybe a 1.4 would be the answer! It's still really weird that this vehicle pulls so well in all the other gears and 5th is just so flat... and again i'm certain that with the 200 from my 90 it would fly as that engine tuned up so impressively well and this one... well... usual tweaks just don't make a huge difference!

Front right brake binding just very slightly and new caliper ready to fit.
Post #631776 16th Jun 2017 7:52am
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mini Anaconda



Member Since: 23 Aug 2016
Location: Thames Valley
Posts: 701

United Kingdom 
I have a 90, and the previous owner fitted a Discovery 200tdi and gearbox. I run 245/75/16 BFG Mud Terrain tyres and I find 5th isn't really useable unless you are on a long stretch of flat road. If you drop back to 50mph or have to go up a longish incline, then I have to drop back into 4th.
It pulls very well through all the other gears, just 5th seems a bit gutless.

When these tyres wear out, I intend to fit a slightly larger size of mud tyre, 265/75/16.

P.S. - the 200tdi is completely standard, no performance mods on it.
Post #631795 16th Jun 2017 10:02am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
If you fit larger tyres then you'll make that problem worse.

To be honest though, 245/75 isn't that big - it's about half way between standard Discovery and standard Defender size. I ran a 300tdi Discovery with that size tyre for several years and never had any problems with using 5th gear, which suggests that your 200tdi may benefit from a bit of attention (maintenance rather than tuning). Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #631806 16th Jun 2017 12:03pm
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