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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Twin Turbo
A question to those in the know (Pete at BAS etc).

Just wandered past an Audi SQ5, sounds lovely and goes like stink. Noticed the bi-turbo badge on the wing and remembred I'd seen a bi-turbo Opel Vivaro just the day before. Quite different vehicles, so as I ate my cheese and ham panini, I wondered if you can (technically) twin/bi-turbo anything? I appreciate there might be a cost/practicality/benefit implication, but I further wondered if the 2.4 could be bi-turboed? If so, what would be the extra BHP versus the cost, assuming that a classic Stage 2 upgrade had already been undertaken (re-map, hoses, intercooler, new VGT and other appropriate mods)?

Just wondering, any thoughts?.... Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #648198 4th Sep 2017 12:02pm
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Kit



Member Since: 12 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 1110

United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Scotia Grey
Allot of big power diesels run compound turbo setups, however to answer your question, yes it could be bi turbo'd but it wouldn't be worth the cost vs a bigger engine. 1993 200 Tdi 90 CSW
1956 Series 1 Hard-top
1958 Series 1 Soft-top
Post #648201 4th Sep 2017 12:15pm
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1758

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
I believe it's mostly done for efficiency reasons. Smaller turbo to deal with the low down grunt, and fill in the power gap until the larger turbo, designs for high rpm power, becomes efficient
Post #648202 4th Sep 2017 12:18pm
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rallysteve



Member Since: 10 Feb 2014
Location: South Yorks
Posts: 2194

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Keswick Green
often twin turbos are used on multi-cylinder engines for ease of packaging (e.g. one turbo per banks to avoid the manifolds having to join before the turbo.

More recently, petrol engines in particular, have used twin turbos to reduce the turbo lag effects. A smaller turbo spools quicker for low rpm with a larger turbo to take over at higher revs. This is what is used with quite a few of the BMW 6cyl engines. This is what the idea is with the new Vauxhall BiTurbo CDTi engines.

I dont think that the twin turbo idea is particually well suited to larger, long stroke diesels which are generally less free revving than a smaller petrol engine anyway. The simplicity of a VGT would be better suited to this type of engine.

Steve 02' 110 TD5 Double Cab Rebuild Thread
84' 90 3.9 V8 Caged Pickup Build Thread


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Post #648204 4th Sep 2017 12:24pm
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2049

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green
There are a few twin turbo TD5s about, I believe Naf on here is doing one. TD5Inside have done a couple too
Post #648215 4th Sep 2017 1:34pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
It depends how the twin turbos are installed.

I think there are two ways of having twin turbos, either one after the other as others have described above, so you have a smaller one then a larger one.

But i think you can also have identical turbos side by side, with the exhaust manifold split in a similar manner to an inlet manifold with twin carbs.
This method would probably be easier to implement, it means you could have two smaller turbos doing two exhaust ports each, the two smaller turbos would spool up quicker than one large one but provide the same over all boost. I think i read the Veyron or something has one turbo per cylinder.

Whether it's worth bothering is another issue, i mean with a remap, intercooler and variable turbo i think you can get over 200bhp out of a Puma or TD5. More than that it's easier to just swap the engine for something bigger, but how much power do you need in a Defender?
Post #648220 4th Sep 2017 2:07pm
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Kit



Member Since: 12 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 1110

United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Scotia Grey
It would be amazing if the veyron did have 1 per cylinder (its a W18 - 18 cylinders)

It's "just" got 4 on its 8.0 engine Shocked 1993 200 Tdi 90 CSW
1956 Series 1 Hard-top
1958 Series 1 Soft-top
Post #648251 4th Sep 2017 4:03pm
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bpman



Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
hey Kit it's actually a W16 ...

A W16 engine is a sixteen cylinder piston internal combustion engine in a four-bank W configuration. All W16 engines consist of two 'offset double-row' banks of eight cylinders, coupled to a single crankshaft. ... This W16 was later used in the Audi Rosemeyer concept car, and is also used in the Bugatti Veyron.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/chris-har...ypercar#14
Post #648260 4th Sep 2017 4:22pm
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Kit



Member Since: 12 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 1110

United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Scotia Grey
The EB 18.4 Veyron is a W18?

To be honest I typed that quickly on my phone, it was supposed to read:

It would be amazing if the veyron did have 1 per cylinder (its original W18 - 18 cylinders)

It's "just" got 4 on its 8.0 engine now Shocked 1993 200 Tdi 90 CSW
1956 Series 1 Hard-top
1958 Series 1 Soft-top
Post #648274 4th Sep 2017 5:31pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3748

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
Anyone can whack a "twin turbo" on any engine they like,...it's easy?
BUT, the difficult thing is, to get such a set up to work, on a vehicle for which it was not designed,....that is if you take the set up from another vehicle, a wreck etc.
Even more difficult would be buying twin turbos and trying to "set them up" on your engine,...the electronics, computer tie ups, manifolding, exhaust etc would be a nightmare.....impossible for most people, I'd say.
Simply, IMHO, not worth the effort.
Pickles.
Post #648347 4th Sep 2017 10:25pm
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LR90XS2011



Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3602

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green
BMW 123d is twin turbo a few people on here have owned them BP man springs to mind. 206 bhp from a 2 litre in standard form and tune-able to over 300. has a small turbo for low revs and a big one for high revs DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy
Post #648361 5th Sep 2017 6:15am
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Rosco



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Burntwood
Posts: 1797

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
The Mercedes C250d is the same as well. Had one for a while and for "only" a 2 litre diesel it went like the proverbial.

My other interest is 80's/90's Fords, especially the Sierra XR models, and back in the day there were quiet a few companies offering "bolt on" turbo kits to fit to the 2.8/2.9 cologne V6. Turbo Technics was probably one of the most successful, especially with the twin turbo kit for the later 2.9's (turbo for each bank). One of the club members has one, and he's had some big numbers on the dyno over the years (500bhp I think at one point) but in reality there's very little left from what Ford built it as. And he also confessed the more he chased the figure, the less drivable the car became.

Anything is possible, but what it costs, and how driver/task friendly it is after are another question. 2007 - Stornoway Grey 90 XS SW - Gone
2002 - Black Discovery II - Gone
2014 - Montalcino Red 110 XS SW
Post #648380 5th Sep 2017 7:30am
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3748

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
Pickles wrote:
Anyone can whack a "twin turbo" on any engine they like,...it's easy?
BUT, the difficult thing is, to get such a set up to work, on a vehicle for which it was not designed,....that is if you take the set up from another vehicle, a wreck etc.
Even more difficult would be buying twin turbos and trying to "set them up" on your engine,...the electronics, computer tie ups, manifolding, exhaust etc would be a nightmare.....impossible for most people, I'd say.
Simply, IMHO, not worth the effort.
Pickles.

And I also should have said, Try & get a twin turbo set up first of all to work, and secondly, to give any worthwhile results on a 2.4, & I'd be VERY surprised indeed. An engine transplant would be a better way, or of course leaving the 2.4 in, go & speak to Pete Bell for a worthwhile tune etc.
Pickles.
Post #648385 5th Sep 2017 7:49am
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L110CDL



Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10427

England 
Rosco, you would of liked my MK2 P100 pick up, it had a V6 2.8 with a turbo pushing 224 BHP everything else on it was standard, awesome machine Wink

Can agree with the Twin turbo's as our Vauxhall Signum V6 2.8 twin turbo pushed out 250 BHP and had no turbo lag what so ever, very nice Very Happy 1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up. Keeper.


Clayton.
Post #648705 6th Sep 2017 9:44pm
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Rosco



Member Since: 03 Dec 2010
Location: Burntwood
Posts: 1797

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
Clayton, P100 was a great pick up in its day and I've seen some great (and equally some hideous) customised ones. Thumbs Up Sharing common parts with the Sierra no doubt helped 2007 - Stornoway Grey 90 XS SW - Gone
2002 - Black Discovery II - Gone
2014 - Montalcino Red 110 XS SW
Post #648740 7th Sep 2017 7:42am
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