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John P

Member Since: 26 Dec 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 268

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

I’ve pondered the thought if I was going to, or returning from a shoot with my shotgun, and came across a violent attack on someone else, like someone running around stabbing people, what should I do. (I really doubt this would happen where I live, but just talking hypothetically)

I have the means to do something, but should I?

The advice given to us under a terror threat is to run, hide and report. Also given some of the comments in this thread, it would be best left to the professionals, no matter how long they take to arrive.

If I decided to do something, I would have to be very certain that when my day in court came, I would have to convince the judge, that I was using reasonable force to protect the people under direct threat. I would have had to use common sense on my part to make that decision, but then need to convey that decision making process to the judge in order to win my case. I would have had to make that decision in seconds, where the judge can ponder over it for hours/days/months.

So who thinks that with the common sense in our society and courts of law I would get not get charged and I would retain my shotgun license?

Personally I don’t think it would be a slam dunk case of me not being charged with something.

So after all my pondering, I think I would do nothing, but would report it once I was hiding safely somewhere. I would like to help, but the looming consequences for myself and my family from the law would be far too great for me.

14th Jun 2017 10:30am

lambert.the.farmer

Member Since: 11 Apr 2012
Location: harrogate
Posts: 2006

proloForêt wrote:
About 5% of muslims live in Europe and more than 99% are peaceful and fine. My daughters best friend at school is from this faith and never I even consider this in my mind.

The problem is that these bad people, they are bad first, follow a different attitude that is actually practiced very widly on earth. You can not hide from this fact. For instance about 10 times as many live in countries where it is against their official law to be gay or even not a muslim. Some have death for this.

Europe is trapped into it own arrogance that it feel it way is the way of the world. It is not so it is easy for these bad people to find a group to encoragement them because it is much more numbers than peaceful in Europe. To them they are very religious in justification for what they do. More in world think this way than in Europe.

I haven't read the Quran in the same way that I haven't read the Bible or any other similar teachings however I am reasonably confident that it doesn't say that it is acceptable to take another human life. It's much like statistics, taking the bits you want and removing them from their context to make a point even when the statistic in true context refutes the same point.. it is nothing to do with religion when a coward brainwashes a criminal into doing something hateful by taking a phrase from a 1500 year old text and twisting it to make a very different idea than it was intended. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.

14th Jun 2017 11:10am

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6264

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

I'm no religious expert and as such could be a million miles off the mark here but do you think whats going on at the moment has any similarities to the early days / start of the Christian crusade of years gone by, only it's not the Christians this time and it's a modern version of ?

lets hope not but I'm thinking it could be another religion trying to get there own back? I suspect in the early days of the Christian Crusade there were a lot of people that weren't that way inclined / were peaceful but their opinions changed as things moved on?

14th Jun 2017 12:16pm

JJ

Member Since: 18 May 2009
Location: Winchester
Posts: 932

1987 Defender 110 V8 Petrol CSW Corris Grey

No Caterham , it is not.

A few posts have already alluded to the fact that the masterminds behind Isis and other groups are not actually that bothered by religion and are merely using it as a pretext to get foot soldiers to do their dirty work.

As always the foot soldier gets it and the powers that be count their cash in their power base.

It is the same old story of power and greed fuelled by a supply of people with little or no hope and nothing to lose.

That is what has to change if we want to end this. HR064 Hampshire and Berkshire 4x4 Response

14th Jun 2017 1:35pm

David T

Member Since: 01 Sep 2016
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 190

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

I'm all for arming civilians but the problem is, most civilians can't be trusted to shoot burglars, and ONLY burglars. Neither can most civilians be trusted to shoot ONLY Muslim terrorists caught mid slaughter.
Before we know where we are, drunken chavs, angry cuckolded husbands, fathers of pregnant schoolgirls, racists and general misfits will be letting bid with side-by-sides at anyone that winds them up. Best leave it to the boys and girls in uniform.

Interesting reading for anyone who's waded through the above;

Race and Faith, The Deafening Silence. by Trevor Phillips. Download free from www.civitas.org.uk

and

The Strange Death of Europe by Douglas Murray, published last May. Ask your local library or stump up £18.99

google Douglas Murray for a sample of his stuff, VERY thought provoking. ✌🏻

14th Jun 2017 6:15pm

Scoobeenut

Member Since: 04 Mar 2015
Location: West London
Posts: 310

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Santorini Black

Interesting question really, so why are ordinary citizens not allowed the capability and the means to be able to defend themselves effectively? As a shooter myself I can fully understand why it just wouldn't be practical to use our legally held firearms, but surely in the current climate citizens should have the capability to fight back (it is not always possible to run & hide).

Obviously because of the difficulty obtaining firearms in this country the terrorists are resorting to this type of mass knife attack. Perhaps key civilians given the correct training, background checks etc should be allowed to carry CS/pepper sprays or tazers, if the terrorists new that we had the capability to fight back maybe it would prevent some of the attacks.

15th Jun 2017 12:46pm

Lateralus

Member Since: 05 Jan 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 185

US gun violence

The United States has a lot of gun violence compared to Canada because of a permanent ghetto culture that is fed and nurtured by the victimhood mentality and many of our lawmakers who love ignorant voters. Take them out of the equation and our gun violence statistics are pretty tame.

What's more ridiculous than Britain's gun laws is it's willingness to import a culture of people who seemingly have no desire to assimilate into western culture and have a desire to change Great Britain through violence. Germany and Sweden are even worse. The fact that this issue isn't talked about much here is unbelievable to me as I hear stories now and then about migrants clashing with locals. WTF are european leaders doing? I pray the British people are waking up as they are good people and great allies to America.

10th Jul 2017 6:17pm

Muddybigdog

Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 991

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Zambezi Silver

Having access to firearms also has its downside http://childrensfirearmsafetyalliance.com Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold
D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold)
Freelander 2 HSE - Sold
Freelander 1 - Sold
Disco 2 - Sold

10th Jul 2017 9:48pm

Lateralus

Member Since: 05 Jan 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 185

Driving a vehicle has its own risks as does walking outside when there is rain and lightning. I choose to live in a state where the local government doesn't impede my constitutional right to protect myself with a firearm. There a few States though that do heavily restrict firearms for law abiding citizens. They are typically high crime and high population areas.

Being able to protect yourself and family, country with a gun is a natural right as pointed out by America's founders.

10th Jul 2017 10:11pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3997

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

Gun ownership and the ability to defend yourself at home is a separate issue to having the public somehow authorised and trained to take on a terrorist threat. What level of training do you give these well meaning folks? What weapons are and aren't allowed? I understand a shotgun is far from ideal. How do they identify the target in a confused situation? How do they communicate with the real emergency services? What happens when they get in over their head and are killed, or worse, kill an innocent bystander? These events have a habit of occurring is crowded urban places. The whole thing sounds like a recipe for an almighty cock up, followed by lawyers making a fortune.

The threat is real, but still the likelihood of being caught up in such an event is tiny and I think the the emergency and security services should be the ones to take care of it. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

10th Jul 2017 10:14pm

alwoodley72

Member Since: 14 Mar 2010
Location: salisbury, wilts
Posts: 716

2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Alaska White

Thank Christ we don't live in America, thoroughly agree with bluest above ^^^ 😗

Cheers alex 98 300 tdi 90 project
94 Range Rover vogue 4.2 lse
79 911 sc
08 130 double cab utility

10th Jul 2017 11:37pm

Lateralus

Member Since: 05 Jan 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 185

Americans can and would fight back with firearms as would the British if gun ownership for personal defense was a part of their culture. It's not though. Western society is being feminized and conquered by people who don't have your best interests at heart. We are fighting the same influence in the US.

11th Jul 2017 12:30am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16870

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

^^ Didn't seem to help much at Columbine, WTC, etc etc. In fact I cannot offhand recall any vaguely similar incident in the US where civilian gun ownership has had a beneficial effect.

11th Jul 2017 12:46am

Lateralus

Member Since: 05 Jan 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 185

Most schools in the US are no gun zones where only criminals will have guns. Iam pretty sure in 2001 that you couldn't be armed on a commercial flight. An armed citizen in either scenario could have made a difference.

Don't depend on the media to find you stories where American gun owners save a life or their own. America is much more than

cities like Chicago, new York city or los Angeles. The American news media depend on high crime cities to push their anti gun narrative. It's the perfect working relationship.

11th Jul 2017 1:08am

Riverboy

Member Since: 16 May 2016
Location: French sector, Earth
Posts: 1288

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

I'm sorry but are you saying that you think passengers should carry firearms on commercial aircraft? If you are then you are a complete idiot. Have you any idea what would happen if people started using guns in a pressurised aircraft at altitude?

My parner is worldwide airline crew and I am ex airline crew. I've seriously not heard a more stupid thing said on this forum.

11th Jul 2017 10:43am

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