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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Your 'Puma' 10 years from now... will it even be a TDCi ?

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agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Your 'Puma' 10 years from now... will it even be a TDCi ?

When looking to buy my first Defender I looked at quite a few older TDIs over 200,000km that had their engines replaced with Nissans and similar, these were still trucking from the public viewpoint as a 'defender' quite nicely.

I ended up with a PUMA 2.4 TDCi instead, and it's running well for the most part at 60,000mi; but I'm wondering what other puma owners long terms plans are for their reasonably maintained but well used TDCi engine poops itself beyond the point of sane repair (what milage would you suggest this is??)

I understand the engine isn't the only component to go (clutch, gearbox, diffs, alternator, hydraulics, steering ... etc.) - but these are relatively easier to swap out compared to an engine that is managed by a CPU that has connectivity to vehicle security and electrical systems.

Question:

Assuming you're planning on keeping it (or buying one at that stage) what is your expectation for keeping it trucking?

...or alternatively, what are the issues in interfacing other engines into the Puma electronics?

Also, aside from replaceable elements (injectors, gaskets, plugs etc.) what will eventually kill a 2.4 or 2.2 ? Anyone driven one to death by now? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

Last edited by agentmulder on 19th Sep 2016 6:41am. Edited 1 time in total

19th Sep 2016 6:21am

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3615

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

big electric motor and some sort of electric storage or generation device DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

19th Sep 2016 6:29am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

True!

I had considered this, and it is even a reality for a defender with partial success by LR themsleves, but if I recall results weren't that great?

Click image to enlarge

Looks like with D-N-R being the options there it's likely integrated well into a TC/ABS system (?) - what about us poor souls who went fully manual with poverty-spec vehicles ?

Mind you Tesla are already leaps and bounds ahead in terms of li-po tech ... and it can only get better right?

There will always be petrolheads with aspirations of a V8 or duratorq 3.2 etc. - but for the rest, is electric going to be the actual sane option? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

19th Sep 2016 6:39am

Pilgrimmick

Member Since: 16 Nov 2015
Location: Highlands
Posts: 581

Apart from missing the engine noise, the electric motor is almost in every respect superior to a petrol engine, torque, controllability, all wheel drive, the only fly in the ointment at the moment is battery power.
The technology for batteries is coming on in leaps and bounds.

Our grandkids will probably never drive a petrol or Diesel engine. ( not the ones who are already driving, but ones being born today!)

Remember chokes? Even handbrakes have almost disappeared already 80" 1948
Lightweight V8
Bowler Tomcat
130 Station wagon
90 300tdi
(Santana PS10 pick up)
Range Rover L322 (Ful fat)

19th Sep 2016 7:57am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Ok, yes 4 independent wheels linked to a TC system with off-road and road 'modes' would be awesome.

Have I just become aware of a soon to be untapped potential for upgrades like this ??

Meanwhile, maybe I should dial back my initial question:

What will you do with your defender in the interim between your TDCi pooping itself and these systems becoming (truly) economical viable to the 'everyman'.

Another engine? An electric engine that connects to the standard transmission (gearbox, transfer, difflock all intact)? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

19th Sep 2016 8:06am

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

Click image to enlarge

"Where we're going, we don't need roads." Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

19th Sep 2016 8:17am

languedoc

Member Since: 13 May 2016
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 283

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alaska White

Pilgrimmick wrote:
Apart from missing the engine noise, the electric motor is almost in every respect superior to a petrol engine, torque, controllability, all wheel drive, the only fly in the ointment at the moment is battery power.
The technology for batteries is coming on in leaps and bounds.

Our grandkids will probably never drive a petrol or Diesel engine. ( not the ones who are already driving, but ones being born today!)

Remember chokes? Even handbrakes have almost disappeared already

10 years of lack of use of the wifes car handbrake (auto BMW X5) meant that when i applied it last week the shoes inside the discs exploded!

19th Sep 2016 8:19am

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2557

In 10 years the oldest Tdci will only be 19 years old - they should mostly still be going strong with good maintenance.

My 90 is 24 years old and has done 265,000 miles on its original Tdi engine, no reason why it shouldn't do another 200k easily.

And in both cases the engines are fully rebuildable and the parts generally available - so I wouldn't be too concerned.

19th Sep 2016 8:43am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

^^

It's good to hear

Part reason for the question is that I'm tossing up or not to invest a bit more 'bling' on my vehicle - roll cage, winch bumper, winch, lighting, internal storage etc.

Generally better to do this on a vehicle earlier in its life (once it's proven it's not a lemon) ... Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

19th Sep 2016 10:00am

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Retroanaconda wrote:
In 10 years the oldest Tdci will only be 19 years old - they should mostly still be going strong with good maintenance.

My 90 is 24 years old and has done 265,000 miles on its original Tdi engine, no reason why it shouldn't do another 200k easily.

And in both cases the engines are fully rebuildable and the parts generally available - so I wouldn't be too concerned.

+1... Mine's a "keeper" - doing all the jobs I want to make it a long-term vehicle.. Will have owned her for 5 years tomorrow... 34,000 miles. May even celebrate her 5th birthday lol

Plenty of regular Dinitrol on the chassis, frequent oil changes... definitely in this for the long haul...

I guess the Ford engine will make parts more available than the TD5 even.... lots more of the TDCI engines on the road in various vehicles... Companies like Ashcroft will keep the drivetrain going for years I hope... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

19th Sep 2016 10:29am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16907

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

My Puma is at about 200,000 now and when the engine eventually needs rebuilding or replacing I will rebuild it or replace it with the same again.

It's ideally suited to the job, and given that I can still buy parts for my 66 year old S1 engine I have every expectation that I will be able to buy Ford engine parts for a long time yet.

19th Sep 2016 3:22pm

AJC

Member Since: 30 Nov 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1335

To point out, if an engine is well looked after, it should be good for many miles.

I overservice my car, every 3-4k it gets everything. it really shows too as it pulls hard and engine is very quiet and issue free, the puma engine is technically a transit engine, mate of mine has a few transits at his place close to 300k and all are mechanically great on their first engines, but they are serviced very often.

19th Sep 2016 3:27pm

Jukathy

Member Since: 25 Jan 2015
Location: Berlin
Posts: 170

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

MartinK wrote:
+1... Mine's a "keeper" - doing all the jobs I want to make it a long-term vehicle.. Will have owned her for 5 years tomorrow... 34,000 miles. May even celebrate her 5th birthday lol

Jap. Unstoppable - until their DPF is full. :|

19th Sep 2016 8:43pm

miker

Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1759

http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php...7#p1382337

How does 750,000 miles sound?

20th Sep 2016 12:44am

Zagato
Site Supporter

Member Since: 08 Jan 2011
Location: Billingshurst West Sussex
Posts: 4990

It,s mostly deterioration of the body not mechanical components which will kill a Defender!

I have a 50 year old Ford Taunus V4 in my SAAB 96 (similar to the old Transit engine) it,s only done 70k miles but you can still get the bits to rebuild it. Germany are the main source for balance shafts, timing gears etc. The engines will do 200k easily well before any rebuild but for maybe a new balance shaft.

I also have a low mileage SAAB 9000 Aero but my mates all have 9000's with over 300,000 on the clock and they put between 300-550 BHP through them. The gearboxes and clutches are the weak point, parts will be available for those for years but you can have new cranks etc made anyway...

The real question is how do you expect to keep your body alive because these motors will out last any of us

until it becomes uneconomic to do a rebuild caused by corrosion that is!

20th Sep 2016 8:14am

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