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agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Fuel priming tool, where is it intended to fit inline?

Hello all,

So I'm interested, where do the (expensive and/or imperfect fitting) inline fuel priming tools actually sit?

Check out the following diagram of the fuel system:

Click image to enlarge

The circles are the connectors, which have the same colour coding in the actual machine.

Between BLUE and RED makes some sense to me (replacing the fuel pump with the hand pump).

But my question is then, when you disconnect the tool, you're going to introduce air in the reconnection of the blue (female) connector, which is prior to the common rail ('2' in the diagram)... back to square one yeah (?)

Next suggestion to solve that might be between RED and YELLOW, thereby pulling fuel through the transfer pump, but can this be done? What is the resistance like through the pump? Also possible air could end up in the common rail, but I don't know what is going on at points (3) and (4) in terms of resistance or if fuel would prefer going through the transfer pump over the high-pressure pump.

Next query is regarding people talking about putting pressure in the tank either via the filler (and stuffing wet socks etc. down there), or via the breather:

I can only see this working if there is some release of fuel down stream of the pressure - otherwise the return line will be forced equally and there will be zero net pressure differential.

As far as I can see this can be done by unplugging BLUE and collecting diesel there, but again, back to introducing air in the male connector of the fuel pump.

Or your choice of RED, or YELLOW or closer to the tank (if there is an available connection) - but again, same unknowns and potential for issues as outlined above.

This aspect hasn't been brought up in the 'use pressure' threads I've read so far.

Meanwhile I haven't actually bought a inline pump - and I'm convinced one isn't required* - I'm thinking of using a 500ml syringe at RED or YELLOW for suction only as the way I see there is no harm introducing air on the return lines...

Keen to hear from people who like thinking about stuff like this - (fellow OCD Union members

)

(* lots of discussion from folk doing quite fine just topping up the filter and letting the engine have at it with none of this malarkey, but that's off-topic here thanks) Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

Last edited by agentmulder on 4th May 2016 8:38am. Edited 1 time in total

3rd May 2016 11:34pm

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Been thinking about this myself. The LR tool (Part 310-110 IIRC) is expensive. There's a "Laser" aftermarket kit a bit cheaper. There's quite good coverage in the Workshop Manual.

This thread may be of interest http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html

I'll be doing my fuel filter replacement for the first time myself in a couple of weeks so watching with interest

I'll be trying the fill-the-filter-first-and-change-quickly method first I think. However there's an attraction of having the bleeding tool in case I ever run out of fuel (maybe keep in the vehicle next to the jack/battery).

Edit:

The Laser 5262 kit (pic) is still £130 off ebay...

Click image to enlarge

The Sealey VS555 is about £20 more:

Click image to enlarge

As we know the LR genuine one is ~£280 here:
http://www.dingocroft.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss0000...TION=Go%21 Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

Last edited by MartinK on 4th May 2016 8:55am. Edited 1 time in total

4th May 2016 7:41am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Done a bit of reading, seems like the pressure method is to remove the BLUE connector and collect it there.

Local LR mechanic says any air introduced in the disconnection/connection process should go through fine. Internet wisdom seems to agree.

Anyway, soooo in the meantime I found that my breather tube was cracked below the little loopy thingy (the smaller one on the opposite side, i.e. not the fill breather).

With a little fiddling the

broke off even closer to the tank - so long story short >> it was filled with dirt and air tight!

I don't recall either seeing a vacuum crumpled tank or hearing a hiss topping up diesel after a long drive (so that's er... good ?

)

So now I'm thinking the hose might be broken at the tank end and apparently with a bit a bit of bolty undo-ey I can get to the breather connection without disconnecting the fuel lines ... Got some new fuel hose locally, can't imagine the slight difference in size will be an issue, considering it worked while blocked aaaand it's low flow air/vapour only.

Should be interesting; obviously wont do the filter until this is all done. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

4th May 2016 8:52am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Oh hey, a question:

What is the little round and green knob near the blue connector?

Guess is that it opens and closes the line to either fuel and or atmospheric pressure - not sure for what purpose though. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

4th May 2016 9:01am

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

agentmulder

you talking about this pic?

Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

4th May 2016 10:16am

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

The circled part is the BLUE connector yeah.

In the background there is a green part that it connects to slightly further upstream. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

4th May 2016 10:18am

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

I thought the green was the pressure relief... i.e. if you pump too much fuel it releases from the green valve... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

4th May 2016 10:28am

Dave-H

Member Since: 08 Feb 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1507

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Tonga Green

Its all a complete waste of effort on a Puma anyway.

Simply fill new filter with diesel and swap old/new with minimum delay.
Up the revs slightly for a good few seconds to clear any air that might have entered [if any] and jobs a good un ...

Same as all other Puma engined vehicles ... We've done thousands and never had a problem Guns and Landrovers .... anything else is irrelevant.

4th May 2016 2:41pm

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

I agree.

Just engineering/mech talkin' it up ...

Due to recent events it might be more relevant in my case though, small chance I may have to drain my tank

Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

4th May 2016 9:01pm

AndrewS

Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3707

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red

Dave-H wrote:
Its all a complete waste of effort on a Puma anyway.

Simply fill new filter with diesel and swap old/new with minimum delay.
Up the revs slightly for a good few seconds to clear any air that might have entered [if any] and jobs a good un ...

Same as all other Puma engined vehicles ... We've done thousands and never had a problem

Agreed it you are local and help would be close to hand if required, however if you are going on an overland trip you definitely need to take one.

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html

AndrewS wrote:
The home made one works

Removed and drained the filter. Here is the contents Check out the crap in the bottom of the glass.

This is the pump I made. As you can see there is only one connection on the 'tool' as I never connected the bleed tool in line. I simply placed the end of the pipe into a container to catch the fuel as it was pumped through. The other end was pushed into the female connector of the fuel line. It took about 2 minutes and about 2 pints of fuel before the fuel became air free.

Here is the Land Rover tool

A picture with dimensions of the male end of the Land Rover tool.

A picture with dimensions of the male end of the home made tool. As you can see its smaller in diameter but it sealed. Obviously I would like to get an end that is the correct Ø

This is the location of the connector that the bleed tool fixes to. Push the blue tabs in and pull the connector off the feed to the fuel pump.

Disclaimer
If you your car up following these instructions its not my fault

130's have feeling's as well you know

5th May 2016 8:03am

P33ETC

Member Since: 11 May 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1

If it's of any use or if it helps someone reading this in the future; I had to remove my tank yesterday, replaced the fuel filter along with the small l/h breather and the larger fill breather on the r/h side as both were perished and broken. I filled the filter to the brim with fresh diesel before attaching and hunted Google on how to prime the system. There's still a lot to do on the motor before the weekend so ordering a priming bubble pump wasn't really an option, my first thought was to get an air line on to the small breather, open the fuel filler cap and clamp the return to the tank and disconnecting the fuel supply near to the pump.
As I stood staring in to space, I was looking right at the solution on the shelf in front of me; a vacuum pump!! Originally bought for doing oil changes on an onboard boat engine, it has a clear tube with an od of 8mm or so. Looking around, I found a bit of steel tube with an od of 9mm or so, a bit of electrical tape and a few pumps and it took fuel straight from the tank, through the filter, up the line right to the pump.
I was worried sick all day in case I was going to damage something or be stuck with an air lock as some people were saying only the specialist tool would work and how hard it is to bleed the line etc but in under 2 minutes, the Heath Robinson primer had sucked a good 4l of fuel through effortlessly, plugged back in and engine running.
Pheeew!!!

11th May 2016 10:52pm

agentmulder

Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Good job, seems like there are many solutions to this - including: doing nothing

I did the tasks as you over last weekend: fuel filter and the two breathers, my trick (if you could call it that) was the standard where you fill the filter and replace it quickly, as for the fuel line connections to the tank I quickly held them up high after disconnection so as to minimise fuel loss (which is replaced by air).

Ran it at 1500 or so RPM for 2minutes then took it for a drive around the street in 1st low (keep revs high, but not get too far away from home).

Worked for me at least

Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

12th May 2016 12:38am

MartinK

Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2664

Great posts guys thanks - my fuel filter arrived on Tuesday - a job coming up in the next days. Cheers Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)

12th May 2016 6:30am

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green

Thanks for the dimensions. I'll turn up one like the landrover tool on the lathe. I bought a bulb pump so just a bit to tubing to finish the job.

On replacement of the fuel filter, I topped up the new one with clean fuel and ran the engine with no need to bleed out any air that may have entered.however having the bleed tool to hand will be handy in future.

John "You are never to old to learn something new"

9th Feb 2017 11:35am

AlanH

Member Since: 15 Mar 2010
Location: WA
Posts: 242

The way I do it is the same as others have done. No special tools and no rushing around worrying about air getting in either.
Just remove old filter, fill new filter with diesel from a very clean jar and push it up and turn. Job done.
Start car and run at tick over for around 2 minutes and never had a problem at all, no hesitations no stopping, just smooth running.
I think I had more palpitations changing the alarm fob batteries.....

AlanH.

10th Feb 2017 8:47am

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