Eduardo wrote:

So, LR have limited resources and the new LRX concept almost drain all the R&D budget and I think that they do not have the capacity to make an all-new Defender in special if they sell only 25,000 per year.

In a tight SUV market the new defender must reach a better share market, if not a new development will not paid. That means several modification to make the model more "friendly" with an obvious compromise of the versality and the off-road capacity.

Its a pitty, but its the market.


regards

mse wrote:

Eduardo wrote:

So, LR have limited resources and the new LRX concept almost drain all the R&D budget and I think that they do not have the capacity to make an all-new Defender in special if they sell only 25,000 per year.

In a tight SUV market the new defender must reach a better share market, if not a new development will not paid. That means several modification to make the model more "friendly" with an obvious compromise of the versality and the off-road capacity.

Its a pitty, but its the market.


regards

Im sorry mate thats just rubbish.

1st (having been round the R&D centre) and know people involved there funding etc is not an issue.

2nd the defender volumes are good - profit is always tight but not a worry in terms of development

3rd they have been since the close of the last working on it

4th the defender proves the other models, holds the brands and sells (a lot)

so dont worry

Hi mse,

Its nice to hear somebody that have other vision of the things!

I have been working for several years in R&D and I know that the funds to develop a car from the beginning to the end implies a LOT of money. Maybe LR R&D have the funds to sketch a new defender in the first stages but all the money involved to make the basic engineering, detail engineering, testing not only for the car, also for the production line I think they don't have. Those funds are already assigned to the LRX concept. Develop 2 cars at the time for a company of the size of LR will be complicated at least.

A production of 25,000 cars per year in an old fashion manner is quite limited (Toyota Cruiser as an example make this amount in one month!, take Jeep, Mitsubishi, or Nissan etc. and you will find that the production lines are far more productive than the Defender) The only way that a new Defender can arrive is that the market share will increase to an interesting volume to LR.

Its not a problem of only R&D. I can assure that a production of 25,000 cars doesn't paid a new production line and R&D involved in all the process included detailed engineering, test and the production line.

But the future is not writen and I hope that TATA will inject some money to save the Defender ao make something similar.

Regards. Eduardo

MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64'
MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"

Click image to enlarge

mse wrote:

Im sorry your really wrong on this.

It would be wrong for me to reviel that much.

Track wise is not an issue. R&D budgets and facilities is not an issue (if you havent seen what they have at gaydon then you will be surprise...hence it is widely recognised as the best R&D facilities)

All the money doesnt and never is on 1 line - they have many redesigns running.
Range Rover, LRX, Defender, next Discovery new product and have been running the new defender for a while.

I actually think your wrong on production of defender figures - i seem to recall it is a lot higher than this and that they won a contract for the new defender for that figure. I can easliy find this out.

LRJ are not a toy company.

Hi mse,

I hope I will be wrong and we can have defenders for a lot of time.

I thiks you and me are seeing a differnt side of the same coin.

I just based my comments in the figures that LR has released and in the price paid by TATA for LR.

To be honest, LR is a medium/small size car company, nothing compare with the biggest ones were the money for R&D are much more than LR could spend I cannot deny that Gaydon have a very good R&D facilities and they are impressed the world with several developments trough the years. But on the other side the market is tighest than in the past given not so much room for profits.

Rise the money to build a new car is other thing and requires to be based in the future profits that cannot be sustained with the current defender sells. If they like to design a replacement for the Defender should be based in a profit that can paid the investment on it and that means more cars and that must be a major change that should include civilizing the Defender with the ovbious compromise with the all terrain possibilities.

By the way, remember that some toys companies like Mattel worth more than LR!.

Regards Eduardo

MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64'
MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"

Click image to enlarge

mse wrote:

I am right - not only because ive seen it - but because its no secret - there was even an article in LRO a few months back.

There is huge amounts that go into R&D and if you look back in history you will see R&D spending when LR were part of Rover Group and Leyland werent great and still they produced.

Remember LR is not a company on its own its part of LRJ now which is a division of Tata - before it was part of the PAG group of ford.

One thing i have already said is the future defender will not be like this one - it has already been given 3 yrs life only.

mse,

You are right that maybe LRJ spent proportionally more money than others in R&D but stlll is less than other carmakers put in the same area. That can be seen in the models that each company put in the market every year. My tought is that LR have not the capacity to develop several models at the productive level at the same time and that can be seen in an article about the development of new models. R&D budget is allways limited and more in bad times like now were the production is reduced due the market conditions.

In fact LRJ are part of a bigger group but is handle like a isolate productive unit (The same happened were belongin to Ford or BMW or Leyland), may be LR can lend some money from TATA but its just that: a liability that, at the end, will affect the end results.

Both of us are egree that Defender have a limited lifespan. The point is what LR will do: Leave the Defender for undevelopment countries (not our regretably ), modify the Defender to a new stage to provide a rough car for Europe and USA at a bigger price, or maybe both.

The problem anyway will be the money required to do the 2nd and 3rd alternatives, if a big part of the budget is allocated now in the LRX.

Regards

Both Eduardo

MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64'
MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"

Click image to enlarge