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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765   
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I was watching a re-run of an old Top Gear last night, in which the new RR Sport was taken through its paces. Impressive stuff, sure many of you have seen it.
It got me thinking about one of its selling points (over that of the original RR Sport) and whether it could be applied to the Defender. Namely the Aluminium chassis. 
Has anyone ever changed the galvanised steel Defender chassis for an aluminium one? Are there reasons not to do it (bar cost) such as strength, practicality of repair on overland's, body/chassis welding etc? It saves over half a tonne on the RR Sport, which would be quite an advantage on the Defender. Just a query at this stage, as budget would not be close to affording a custom alu chassis, but maybe in the future for an Overland spec, if budget allows. General thoughts or ideas for discussion anyone? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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20th Jan 2015 3:58pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765
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Yes, did think that too... Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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20th Jan 2015 4:34pm |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6044  
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would a bare ali chassis be as strong as a steel one?
I suspect that the rangie one is built in conjunction with the bodywork to stiffen it up, whereas the defender steel one is "lorry" ish where it would be strong enough as a bare tray back or chassis cab, |
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20th Jan 2015 5:47pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16934 
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That's not a chassis in the OP, it's a monocoque. You could redesign the Defender to use an aluminium frame but it would be radically different and probably be.... a 2016 Defender replacement.
Although modern metallurgy and modelling techniques probably would make a light alloy version of the steel chassis technically feasible I have no doubt it would be both massively expensive and very difficult to repair if damaged. |
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20th Jan 2015 6:37pm |
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| Mountain_man Member Since: 09 Dec 2011 Location: Right side of Offas Dyke Posts: 756 
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A defender chassis isn't actually all that heaver though is it. Maybe 3-400 kg max if that. Ali would need to be thicker and more braced to acheive similar levels of strength and rigidity (assuming you were keeping the same external chassis design, so I can't see weight savings being that much at all TBF
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20th Jan 2015 6:45pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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Also remember the dissimilar metal corrosion issues with the Discoveries with the aluminium panels and steel chassis. This would be the reverse obviously, but perhaps more attention to build could be applied.....On second thoughts with JLR forget my last comment!
 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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20th Jan 2015 6:49pm |
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| Lou Sparts Member Since: 15 Apr 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 1501 
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Many years ago there was a company in Scotland that made equipment for the offshore oil industry who for a while ventured into making stainless steel chassis for series Land Rovers, someone should do one for the Defender. 2005 Td5 90 XS
Steve |
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20th Jan 2015 7:42pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16934
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Yes, but they don't make them any more which suggests that there was no market at the price!
Again they'd be difficult to repair. |
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20th Jan 2015 8:02pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Many years ago I replaced the rear cross member on my Lightweight with an aluminium one. Simply capped the chassis legs and welded on some brackets and the cross member was then bolted to the legs.
Lasted many years and showed no signs of deterioration and was used regularly to jack off and recover from. Very simple to make and even easier to fit. To make a full aluminium chassis I think you would have to consider the relative strengths and weaknesses of the material. The current chassis shape is a function of it being designed to be made with steel. To just copy that design in a different material would be wrong. Look at the true aluminium chassised vehicles being made today - most are made with complex sections extruded and then glued & riveted rather than welded. Back to the Op's comments and I have it in mind that JLR have already announced that the new Defender will be based on the new RRS platform, albeit, there will be some additional strengthening given it's market position. Last edited by Supacat on 21st Jan 2015 10:42am. Edited 2 times in total |
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20th Jan 2015 9:41pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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We used to run lorry trailers with aluminium chassis (way before my time) and from what I've gathered there was no real benefit. They were more expensive, to start with they were lighter but they started cracking up so were sent back to be sorted out and the bracing that was added negated the previous weight benefit.
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21st Jan 2015 10:23am |
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| LRmud Member Since: 22 Oct 2014 Location: IV12 Highland Posts: 198  
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I would think with modern Stress Analysis software, the Defender chassis could be re-worked (in steel) to save a good bit of weight if anyone was bothered to do it.
There must be many areas where there is excess steel which could be removed. |
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21st Jan 2015 10:50am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Interesting article here on the subject:
"Aluminum giant Novelis says it has developed a new grade of weight-saving aluminum sheet designed to replace steel in bumpers, doors and other safety-critical areas of vehicle bodies. Novelis says its Advanz 7000 series is two to three times stronger than the aluminum sheet currently in high-volume production. The company, whose largest automotive customers are Jaguar Land Rover and Ford Motor Co., says it has provided samples of its new aluminum for testing to automakers and could begin production when the new metal is ordered. JLR and Ford, the industry's two largest buyers of aluminum, likely would be among the first to use Advanz 7000. "We are working with Novelis on a whole range of new, high-strength aluminum alloys, of which the 7000 series could be included for specific applications on future products," said Mark White, JLR's chief body engineer. Aluminum's growth in the auto industry has been accelerating as a greater number of automakers turn to the lightweight metal to reduce weight, which improves fuel economy and delivers other benefits. But at an industry conference last week in Traverse City, Mich., officials from the steel industry said they have their own new, ultra-high-strength steel grades that can save weight and reduce manufacturing complexity ready for the market. Most aluminum panels, such as those used on Range Rovers and the new Ford F-150, are held together by a combination of rivets and adhesive, which is more complex than spot-welding two steel panels. "As we bring on new steels, how you join them is not a barrier," said Eric Petersen, vice president for research and innovation for AK Steel. Aluminum has been displacing steel on doors, hoods and other hang-on body parts for years. Strong growth is expected as such vehicles as the Cadillac CT6 and the next generation of the Jeep Wrangler use a greater combination aluminum and steel in a mixed-materials approach. But the steel industry is fighting back with massive investments in new grades of steel. In 1960, automakers had just two grades of steel from which to choose. Now, there are more than 200, said Jody Hall, vice president of the automotive market at the Steel Market Development Institute." http://www.autonews.com/article/20150810/O...r-aluminum |
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11th Aug 2015 8:35am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6489 
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(edit: would help if I read the OP properly)
The 1990s Defender LCV2/3 concept vehicle is on an aluminium chassis if I remember correctly. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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11th Aug 2015 9:45am |
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| bluebottle Member Since: 08 May 2015 Location: Not in my Landy enough! Posts: 705
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I think Land Rover planned for this - it's called rust...  2005 110 XS - Cairns Blue "Bertha" - Gone, and sorely missed |
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11th Aug 2015 10:58am |
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