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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Amos wrote:
Then why do Landrover use it..... Thet don't put thing in engines, so the owner can block it up 2 weeks latter....


I'll try and answer, not 100% sure of the facts but it was as explained to me....

The EGR Valve is there primarily to reduce Nitrous Oxide emissions...Certain countries the USA in particular measure Nitrous Oxide emissions as part of their MOT equivalent test. Fail it and you need to get your emissions down to an acceptable limit to get your ticket.
Nitrous Oxide is not currently measured as an emission in the UK allthough other gases are. Hence the desire to blank off the EGR Valve instead of feeding back harmful gases back into the engine for reburning. There is an explanation somewhere I'll see if I can find it:

Have copied it from the thread instead, Amos ear tiz everything you may like to know:

dgardel wrote:
The EGR valve recirculate, in same engine rpm, Temp, and load conditions, controlled part of exhaust gases to the inlet manifold.

In this way the engine run with lower combustion temperature and produce less NOx
LINK1
LINK2



In modern diesel engines, the EGR gas is cooled through a heat exchanger to allow the introduction of a greater mass of recirculated gas. Unlike SI engines, diesels are not limited by the need for a contiguous flamefront; furthermore, since diesels always operate with excess air, they benefit from EGR rates as high as 50% (at idle, where there is otherwise a very large amount of excess air) in controlling NOx emissions.
Since diesel engines are unthrottled, EGR does not lower throttling losses in the way that it does for SI engines (see above). However, exhaust gas (largely carbon dioxide and water vapor) has a higher specific heat than air, and so it still serves to lower peak combustion temperatures. There are trade offs however. Adding EGR to a diesel reduces the specific heat ratio of the combustion gases in the power stroke. This reduces the amount of power that can be extracted by the piston. EGR also tends to reduce the amount of fuel burned in the power stroke. This is evident by the increase in particulate emissions that corresponds to an increase in EGR. Particulate matter (mainly carbon) that is not burned in the power stroke is wasted energy. Stricter regulations on particulate matter(PM) call for further emission controls to be introduced to compensate for the PM emissions introduced by EGR. The most common is particulate filters in the exhaust system that result in reduced fuel efficiency. Since EGR increases the amount of PM that must be dealt with and reduces the exhaust gas temperatures and available oxygen these filters need to function properly to burn off soot, automakers have had to consider injecting fuel and air directly into the exhaust system to keep these filters from plugging up.

EGR deletion
EGR deletion in diesel engines is considered justifiable by a wide range of people, including the environmentally conscious. Although deleting the EGR system results in increased NOx level; hydrocarbon emissions, particulates, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide are drastically reduced. Furthermore, EGR deletion results in an increase in fuel economy as high as 25%. Exhaust gas recirculated back into the cylinders adds wear-inducing contaminants and causes an increase engine oil acidity, which can result in an inefficient, poorly running engine. The increased level of soot also creates the need for diesel particulate filters to prevent environmental contamination.
 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #43737 28th Oct 2010 7:57am
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BIGFOG



Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Edenbridge
Posts: 537

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Simple really??!! Laughing
Bring on the German Bloke! Thumbs Up
Post #43921 29th Oct 2010 10:43pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
BIGFOG wrote:
Bring on the German Bloke! Thumbs Up


From another thread in answer to the "What about the MIL light illuminating?" His answer short and sweet!....

Red Desert wrote:
software patch


Don't think so!!!! Each to their own, from a personal perspective and for anyone with any type of reprogrammed ECUs I would much rather have an engineering solution to the EGR Valve blanking than a software patch that may be incompatable with the remap.
One thing is for sure whoever comes up with a solution to suit all would undoubtedly 'coin it in!'
As for the German Bloke he's not been heard of since September 1st and posted only 5 times in total...Doubt if we'll hear much considering the solution was due about now (end of year). If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #43926 30th Oct 2010 8:11am
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Naks



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, ZA
Posts: 2615

South Africa 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
K9F wrote:
from a personal perspective and for anyone with any type of reprogrammed ECUs I would much rather have an engineering solution to the EGR Valve blanking than a software patch that may be incompatable with the remap.


+1

Since the sensor looks for exhaust gases in the EGR, would moving the sensor to the exhaust manifold not work?
Post #43943 30th Oct 2010 2:11pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
There's somebody on the site I think apart from 'The German Bloke' working purely on an engineering version! Obviously takes alot of time and development especially if you can't devote your full time to it! Sure someone will come up trumps after all the issue has been around about EGR Valve blanking for quite some time on the Puma now! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #43955 30th Oct 2010 4:47pm
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BIGFOG



Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Edenbridge
Posts: 537

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Thanks for reminding me of the patch issue K9F, that would indeed be a concern for me as well, and like you say, the silence has been a little deafening from our German friend.

On another front, I drove just short of 1000 miles this week and the car is running better than ever, its almost like something unblocked itself halfway through and suddenly the engine is breathing freely. I'm half wondering if he EGR managed to shake off a load of coke and seat itself properly shut at higher revs...

Still on 14mm plate having reset the MIL light about 1500 miles ago Mr. Green
Post #44059 31st Oct 2010 10:16pm
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Tim seymour



Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Devonport TAS
Posts: 92

Australia 
yes mine is going ok still on the 18mm .would really like to blank the bloody thing of all together. it will take time but someone will work it out how to blank it of all together with no bloody light coming on and thay will sell like hot cakes cheers tim Laughing Cess the Taswegian
Post #44065 1st Nov 2010 12:00am
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Beefmaster



Member Since: 08 Nov 2010
Location: Middelburg Mpu
Posts: 19

South Africa 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green
No MIL with EGR blanked off
Hi guys, I'm no super technical genius, and by no means understand fully how the EGR system works. Idea But from what I can gather is that the sensor needs to detect a certain amount of airflow, otherwise it shows the MIL. Now if this is the case, wouldn't it work if we blank it off altogether, and then put in a split on the air intake pipe and move the sensor to there? It will this way still pick up an airflow, albeit clean air, but mightn't this method solve the MIL problem when blanking the EGR off altogether?? Lemme try and draw this with slashes and underscores real quick... :
______________
______/ ______X_____ \_______________
______ |___________/ ________________
\______________/

Shocked

I gathered from some reading on this forum that Pete from BAS is the guy who knows this stuff? Let me know cos when I saw the pics of how it clogs up I realised that this system has to go!!

Hoping for some replies Smile
Post #44662 8th Nov 2010 6:21pm
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Beefmaster



Member Since: 08 Nov 2010
Location: Middelburg Mpu
Posts: 19

South Africa 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green
No that drawing came out all wrong... But anyway, basically blank off the EGR altogether, install a section of parallel hose teed into the intake hose in two places, and install the sensor in the smaller of the two parallel hoses...?? Hope this makes sense Whistle
Post #44663 8th Nov 2010 6:48pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2280

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
I suppose you are right. I had something like that in mind. Being neither a speciallist I do not kno why any of the performance people has not come up with a kit yet. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #44664 8th Nov 2010 6:55pm
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Beefmaster



Member Since: 08 Nov 2010
Location: Middelburg Mpu
Posts: 19

South Africa 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green
Maybe someone can take airflow readings from the EGR and calculate required hose sizes for the split?? I'm keen to give this a bash... If I understood the workings correctly from the start!!
Post #44669 8th Nov 2010 7:12pm
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V2NGT



Member Since: 13 Nov 2010
Location: Petworth
Posts: 4

United Kingdom 
Just added Blanking Plate
Hi All ,

I have just added an EGR blanking plate to my Puma ,
Size used was 12 mm so far without issues .
job is a little fiddly due to access even though there are only 3 bolts to remove/replace . Removing the bonnet helps as does using a tapered nail punch to realign the holes .

What wasn't clear to me was the difference a blanking plate would make, it truly is a new engine far quieter and less "agricultural" than before , if any of you are suffering a dead spot/lag when first applying throttle then this will remove virtually all of the hesitant response .

EGR plate was from Bell Auto Services and arrived the next day in a range of sizes , Fantastic Puma 2009
Bell Remap
Allisport Intercooler
ITG Air Filter
Tornado Full Exhaust
Silicon Intercooler Pipes
Bilstein Dampers
Post #45133 13th Nov 2010 12:16pm
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BIGFOG



Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Edenbridge
Posts: 537

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Re: Just added Blanking Plate
V2NGT wrote:
Hi All ,

I have just added an EGR blanking plate to my Puma ,
Size used was 12 mm so far without issues .
job is a little fiddly due to access even though there are only 3 bolts to remove/replace . Removing the bonnet helps as does using a tapered nail punch to realign the holes .

What wasn't clear to me was the difference a blanking plate would make, it truly is a new engine far quieter and less "agricultural" than before , if any of you are suffering a dead spot/lag when first applying throttle then this will remove virtually all of the hesitant response .

EGR plate was from Bell Auto Services and arrived the next day in a range of sizes , Fantastic


Hi V2NGT,
Your spec, short of the dampers is identical to mine albeit on a 110. I have just got the Tornado exhaust on in the last couple of days. Is yours including a de-cat or cat back? The reason I ask is that Andy of Allisport reported problems with his car after fitting the de-cat and has since removed it and put the original cat back to cure the issue.
Would be interested to hear your side. Thumbs Up
Post #45136 13th Nov 2010 12:27pm
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V2NGT



Member Since: 13 Nov 2010
Location: Petworth
Posts: 4

United Kingdom 
Hi BIGFOG,

Tornado is manifold back so yes it is de-cat and I haven't noticed any issues but I had the exhaust changed with 25 miles on the clock so don't really have anything to compare against .

Exhaust is also straight through with only a tiny rear silencer but I am thinking of adding a centre box which is available from twisted performance as it's really too noisy for me . Puma 2009
Bell Remap
Allisport Intercooler
ITG Air Filter
Tornado Full Exhaust
Silicon Intercooler Pipes
Bilstein Dampers
Post #45138 13th Nov 2010 12:48pm
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BIGFOG



Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Edenbridge
Posts: 537

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Interesting....
My exhaust is cat back, has a tiny centre box, more of a swolen bit of pipe rather than a true silencer, but has no back box at all, but is a side exit.
At low throttle or cruising at motorway speeds, noise is acceptable, but pretty damn loud when under full load, more for bystanders than me I understand. I can only imagine that the de-cat would make things louder still. Currently I am very happy Mr. Green with it.
Cheers for the feedback and welcome to the forum!
Post #45142 13th Nov 2010 12:58pm
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