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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735  
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I think this whole situation is very worrying and stinks of how WWII started. I think they need to be much more forceful with far more severe sanctions against Russia now and nip this in the bud
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30th Apr 2014 8:13pm |
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| lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006  
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I would be very careful of upsetting the USA too much, for the simple reason of them having used nuclear weapons in anger twice. They may have learned how atrocious a thing it was to do but the precedence is there. Then there is the complication of whether China would take sides with the Russians which would then be like trying to win an arsse kicking competition with a porcupine. Difficult and interesting times. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
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1st May 2014 5:22am |
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| Spookytooth Member Since: 19 Jan 2014 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 202 
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Don't think we have seen the end of it for sure. The Union broke up rather quickly and some of these countries eg Ukraine have historically had many border movements and sub races within the regions and not everyone automatically wants to be part of the west as we assume thy must surely want to be. It seems to me Putin is just seizing the opportunity presented to him by the people of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. When you travel around Ukraine one thing you notice is just how European Kiev to Poland is and just how Eastern it is once you go past Kiev with Kiev itself a huge mix of different looking races and cultures and hence torn between those who lean East and those who lean West. What is Putin supposed to do when ex Russian people ask for his help; take advantage of it I guess and milk it for all it worth, however, I personally do not think he has eyes on invasion of the whole of Ukraine, Kiev East and South will do for now.
Do you think other ex Soviet countries will turn to Putin and what will he do then? |
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1st May 2014 7:07am |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6050 
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I think the US (and the UK etc) should mind their own business....
Getting fed up with various countries dictating to others what they should/shoudln't be doing, as said, that's how various wars start, and I don't fancy being in WW3 |
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1st May 2014 7:46am |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Well I'm tempted to agree, that we should stay out. But, history shows that is exactly how world wars start. One country decides to invade its neighbour/s because of the inaction of other countries. In WW2, Britain stood by when Germany annexed Austria and occupied Czechoslovakia. Poland was a line in the sand, and it would only have been a matter of time before an invasion of Britain would have taken place - so it was inevitable from the start of German expansionism. Some expansions stop of their own, others have to be popped. My guess is that Russians will eventually tire of Putin's 'jam tomorrow' anyway. Russia is petrified of a civil uprising (as is China). It could be ironic that Putin's bullying of Ukraine may bring about his downfall, and maybe that of the Russian system. Even the Crimea Region will cost Russia a small fortune, never mind other regions which need massive investment to stop riots on the streets. Russia is still paying a terrorism price for Georgia; it doesn't make sense to make things worse for themselves. It isn't as if border countries are awash with natural resources to plunder. If oil prices plummet for whatever reason then Russia could find itself in truly perilous times. Many people there want the nice cars and fancy gadgets that Capitalism brings to many. A failing Russian economy would be bad for Putin and his cronies, but also worrisome for the West. Now left.
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1st May 2014 9:23am |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
Doubt very much there will be a war, (crooked)billionaires run Russia not Putin and they definitely don't want war,Putin want's Crimea and has got it,now he will do what he does best, torment the West (at the same time guaranteeing a stronger position for him/Russia/Crimea afterwards).If anything,Putin gonna wind up dead,shot by one of his own. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
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1st May 2014 9:49am |
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| diesel_jim Member Since: 13 Oct 2008 Location: hiding Posts: 6050
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Good points there puddle.
I wonder whether financially we can afford to faff about over there either... We should just defend our shores (incl Gibraltar & Falklands) and let the other countries do the same |
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1st May 2014 9:55am |
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| Lambley Member Since: 20 Apr 2013 Location: Mid Devon Posts: 1435 
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I'm with Diesel Jim on this, we're getting into things that we don't understand, leave well alone if it has no direct consequences on us. Putin's just trying it on at the moment, I think he'll soon back down. Russians in my opinion are brash and very forceful, they seem to like fighting.
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1st May 2014 10:55am |
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| Interlet Member Since: 10 Oct 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 461 
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Sorry but I do not buy all this little England rubbish about keeping out of it. This is a global issues and what happens to Ukraine will directly affect how we trade with Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe.
Do you people not learn from history? Diesel Jim and all those who agree with you would have been the same people who thought we should sit on our hands and do nothing while Austro-Hungary and Germany started the First World War, and Hitler was invading Czechoslovakia and Poland and executing millions of Jews in the Second World War, and letting them demand what they like all in the name of avoiding war. And yet you guys probably complain that we have let our military crumble into a mere coast guard. Liberty is the way forward in the world, but not liberal thinking, like the suckup Chamberlain who failed to stop the rise of an evil  . Putin is not much different, and he certainly does not believe in liberty. 1998 110 300Tdi White Hard Top |
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1st May 2014 1:07pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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Well, there are more ways than one to skin a cat. Keeping out of it and watching events certainly has an appeal. One thing is absolutely certain, if we were to send in troops then WW3 is almost a given. Russia under Putin would never back down. But we can take the way that (it appears to me) the West is taking thus far - one of standing back and letting Russia hang itself with its own rope. You'll notice that despite all its bravado, Russia is still massed on the border. I think the US is calling Putin's bluff. Putin outsmarted Obama over Syria. That was partly Obama's fault for saying that chemical weapons were a line in the sand. He stated that - then did nothing about it. It made him look weak and out-moved (chemical weapons were used by Syria last week!). However, I think that Putin isn't as clever as he thinks he is. He has given it all the mouth, but doesn't really want to invade unless pushed. If that time comes, Russia will pay a heavy price - financially and politically. I don't think the UK has any place in it at all. We're not the world power of 100 years ago, and we're not even at the forefront of Europe (Germany is). Let's watch Putin and Russia really screw it up and show that, in fact, they're no good at chess at all. Now left.
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1st May 2014 1:45pm |
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| Interlet Member Since: 10 Oct 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 461
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Ah, now that is a different message from earlier. I agree in this instance war is not what we should be preparing to do, i agree that this needs to be done through political and economic pressure, but my point is it needs to be done, to stop Putin. He is a dangerous man 1998 110 300Tdi White Hard Top
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1st May 2014 2:14pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16959 
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I wonder what would have happened if the Ukraine had been a member of NATO. Would Putin have gone in?
The outcome either way would be very different. It is a sad truth that despite considering itself the most highly evolved and only "civilised" species, mankind is actually the most barbarous, nihilistic and destructive creature on the planet. At a time when we need global solutions to global problems, we can't even copoerate as a single population. Ultimately I fear mankind will exterminate itself as surely as night follows day, it is only a question of when. It is encouraging however that owning a Defender will undoubtedly be an advantage in the post-apocolyptic wilderness. |
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1st May 2014 2:40pm |
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| Lambley Member Since: 20 Apr 2013 Location: Mid Devon Posts: 1435
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Agreed, Putin should be stopped, but at what cost? Sending in troops at an early stage could be catastrophic, much better to issue sanctions and political pressure to start with, last week 17 Russian companies and 7 politicians were hit with sanctions on top of previous sanctions and more will certainly follow if it continues, Russia's cost of borrowing will be hit due to a downgrade in currency ratings and their GDP has been slashed, wealthy Russians are moving their cash and equities to London as a safe haven, and a lack of foreign investment into Russia will hurt the country, surely it won't be long before the population realises how long it could take to recover and urge Putin to back down. Only my 2 penneth of course. |
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1st May 2014 5:22pm |
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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735
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As I said earlier in this topic we need to ramp up the sanctions big time and urgently and all other countries need to unite in their condemnation and intolerance of Putins behaviour. Only this way will we manage to avoid him moving troops further into Ukraine and of course he wouldn't then stop there if he'd got away with that.
But under no circumstances do I condone a war or sending in our troops. We've lost far too many of our own soldiers fighting other people's wars as it is and lets face it our arms has been cut so small now we could barely defend a castle never mind a country. |
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1st May 2014 7:04pm |
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