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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
BigWheels wrote:
Never seen a Disco 4 commercial on the road or even advertised.

They look just like a regular Discovery with blacked out rear windows, so you wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you had. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #316515 16th Mar 2014 9:09pm
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UtilityTruck



Member Since: 09 Jan 2014
Location: Oxford
Posts: 463

United Kingdom 
They tend to have black plastic arches like the D3, but pretty unusual on a 4.
Post #316521 16th Mar 2014 9:18pm
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3459

 2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
No news is good news? ( back on topic ) 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
Post #316534 16th Mar 2014 9:54pm
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Limey



Member Since: 18 Oct 2013
Location: Northern Italy
Posts: 193

Italy 
I have to come back to this and side with Setok and SwedishBloke. The DC100 prototype is OK; as a totally different type of vehicle. They would probably sell quite well, but it is absolutely not worthy of being a Defender replacement. I mean that in terms of: for Land-Rover, and for me (and by the sounds of it, for others too).

I hope I can can justify that comment, the DC100 is an MG-F; it is a trendy design that is blatantly following what is currently cool in auto styling. And that approach is great, until it's suddenly not cool, which is usually less than ten years down the line. The Defender has kept it's beautiful, dignified, purposeful lines, and it has aged gracefully for more than 60 years, still looking great in my humble opinion.

Will that DC prototype be capable of ageing well?

Will that prototype become a do-all, classless vehicle, which is just as capable of being Her Majesty the Queen's workhorse as it is for being a Military bomb disposal vehicle, for being an AA breakdown vehicle, an outback workhorse, a Safari vehicle, and all the other jobs which make the current Defender so unique, so versatile, so universally respected and so very famous?
Post #316582 17th Mar 2014 10:05am
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Limey



Member Since: 18 Oct 2013
Location: Northern Italy
Posts: 193

Italy 
I'd like to ask everybody a question.

In our family we play the 'Would you keep it' game. It's simple enough, you are either given, or you win, a brand new car. So this car is yours, no money involved, do you want to keep it? Or would you sell it and use the money elsewhere? The kids love this game, and us parents secretly do too. Regarding the DC-100 I wouldn't keep it, as unfortunately it just doesn't appeal to me. But I'm just one person, and opinions are like ********* we all have one, and they all stink. So, knowing that my opinion stinks, I'm curious as to the rest of you.

We can even look at it on another level, you are given the DC-100, but to keep it, you have to give back your Defender (because that way, it is truly the replacement vehicle for the Defender). Do you want to keep the DC?

I think the response could be really interesting, especially if the cross-section of replies is as wide as is the appeal of the Defender. So if you use your current Defender for anything work-related, adding that info would be very interesting with your response...
Post #316591 17th Mar 2014 11:38am
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

United Kingdom 
Abstain. Now left.
Post #316595 17th Mar 2014 12:01pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

United Kingdom 
Limey, can I ask you and others who dislike the DC100 - what would YOU do if you were in charge at LR? You wouldn't seriously keep the Defender going (given its sales figures)? The only global figures I have are from 2011, which say that they sold 20,000 against Toyota's 550,000 Shocked . So (presumably) you'd replace it. What with? A utilitarian vehicle? Or (all the time bearing in mind that YOU have been appointed in charge at LR with all those jobs and the company's future to think of) would you opt for a softer vehicle - one likely to appeal to a larger market? Now left.
Post #316597 17th Mar 2014 12:11pm
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Limey



Member Since: 18 Oct 2013
Location: Northern Italy
Posts: 193

Italy 
Hi WhatPuddle, that's a fair question. I certainly don't want to be antagonistic toward Land Rover, as I think that they're behind one of the worlds only true motoring icons.

The first answer is 'No, I wouldn't attempt to continue into eternity with the current Defender' because in some areas it is in obvious need of improvement. I would attempt to create a replacement that held dear it's core principles, and if that was not possible, I would merely create an entirely unrelated new model, and admit that the new model was not a replacement for the legendary Defender.

So if we're talking about a replacement, and bearing in mind that I'm thinking on my feet, and that I am not an automotive professional who has had the luxury of several years to work on this redesign. I guess I would attempt to design a vehicle that stylistically paid very careful tribute to the original Defender, one that you could look at, and think 'Ahh, nice, that must be the new Land Rover Defender'. We can all come up with other redesigns that have done this successfully, the new Mini, the new Fiat 500. Off the top of my head I would attempt to keep certain key visual parts, and let's face it, if you look at the current Range Rover, it is recognisably a descendant of the original Range. By keeping that visual similarity, I have a lot of respect for the standard Range Rover, because it has evolved recognisably. So Land Rover already have that capability.

But of course, the Defender is much more than a recognisable silhouette, the Defender is also at it's core -all about abilities. I would assume that it will be necessary to ditch the laborious ladder frame construction, but keeping the C of G very low should still be a priority, and what about keeping alloy bodywork (or even using light weight modern materials) to keep corrosion at bay, and keep that tall body lightweight. Logically a platform that could support a clean diesel, and capable 4 wheel drive ability, which could mate up to various drop-on body styles. Therefore still offering the variations which the Defender is so respected for. Ford in the US have managed to do this with trucks that meet all applicable safety and emissions standards, without resorting to tall but cute, city-orientated, trendy-for-5-minutes hatchbacks like the DC-100.
Post #316602 17th Mar 2014 12:37pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

United Kingdom 
Thanks Limey. The core of your argument:
"All about abilities". Ah, but it isn't! You can achieve the same 'abilities' with a soft 4x4 now. The Range Rover can do as much as the Defender, and more. Electronics (look at Formula 1 now) have passed the Defender by. Just 10 years from now we could be looking at electric motor-in-wheels 4x4s. Those cars you mentioned were all re-doable as modern-day equivalents. To me though, the MINI is nothing like the Mini. So, you don't see the DC100 as a modern Defender, but I don't see why you don't. It will have better off-road capability than the current Defender (don't think LR would let it leave the factory if it didn't, as the press would find out within a day!). It will have the same angular shape. It is certain to be built from aluminium (LR have just invested 1.5 billion in a aluminium plant).

To me, the DC100 IS the new Defender. It's boxy, it's aluminium, it's a supreme 4x4, and it's relatively small. If you were designing the new one, what else would you be hoping to achieve? Ah yes, appeal! And that's why the DC100 looks as it does. When the Evoque was released, Land Rover enthusiasts all raised their eyebrows. Yet look at the sales figures - it's far and away LR's biggest seller - selling 109,000 in its first year, better than any car in LR's history. Why? Because it looks as it does. Ask many LR enthusiasts what they think of the Evoque and you get an unequivocal reply, but it has been a major part in turning the company around. It's plasticky, gimmicky, and looks like it's designed by a 20 year old art student. But god it's popular. And that's what it is all about...MONEY. If LR really are distancing the current Defender then I don't see evidence of that (referring to it and the RR as "bookends" http://newsroom.jaguarlandrover.com/en-in/..._031013/). And if they did then that would be a mistake, it is indeed what defines Land Rover. But they are perhaps 20 years late in replacing it. Most manufacturers would consider dropping it altogether give its sales figures, but they are (hopefully) pressing ahead with the new one. God knows I've criticised Land Rover in the past, especially with their REALLY annoying left-hand drive brochures and adverts, but the DC100 is what would be expected - and everyone should get used to it. It's time to move on. Now left.
Post #316614 17th Mar 2014 1:38pm
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Limey



Member Since: 18 Oct 2013
Location: Northern Italy
Posts: 193

Italy 
Hi again What Puddle, I'm sure you'll understand when I say that I'm happy to agree on some points and disagree on others!

The Defender has become a unique success, envied worldwide, helping to give authenticity to all LR products, Evoque included, as already discussed in previous posts. It may sell, but the Evoque will be nothing more than just another outdated SUV within a decade or two, just like the original Freelander. While the Defender is still a lusted after icon, more than 60 years after its introduction. The Defender is more, and the name stands for more than that.

I stand by my comments that the DC100 is too faddy a design, and I wouldn't keep it, if it were given to me.

The Defender defied categorisation, but that prototype is too easy to pigeonhole, in the amusing words of another, it's a footballers car, just another SUV.
Post #316617 17th Mar 2014 2:01pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

United Kingdom 
Ok, we'll call a truce there with one exception...the Evoque. Again, despite ALL that people say about the iconic Defender, it is actually the Evoque that has drawn in a huge number of buyers to the world of Land Rover in the past few years. Far and away LR's best seller, no less than 80% of buyers of the Evoque are new to Land Rover. 80%! With great residual values and a 'snazzy' design, I believe it's going to be around quite a long time. The cheapest used one in the country is still 24,000!*
*There is one for less than 13,000 but it's evidently a fraud. Now left.
Post #316619 17th Mar 2014 2:17pm
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Limey



Member Since: 18 Oct 2013
Location: Northern Italy
Posts: 193

Italy 
OMG, I just had the patience to watch the full 1 minute and whatever seconds of that DC-100 video, and it has low profile tyres. Excuse me, really? A Defender replacement with low profile types, I mean, where do you begin?
Post #316621 17th Mar 2014 2:57pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

United Kingdom 
Limey, really? http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/electric...e-systems/ Read the caption to the picture of the girly Range Rover Sport. Banging Head As I said, electronics have passed the Defender by. Now, in mud, you ARE going to want MT tyres, but there aren't too many on this forum with MT tyres - mine has AT. Now left.
Post #316632 17th Mar 2014 4:19pm
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GUM97



Member Since: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3555

United Kingdom 1997 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Stornoway Grey
^^Have you driven an Evoque/Sport/RR/Disco off road on standard road tyres? Go and try it, and then come back and tell me if you really NEED MT's. An engine to TDi for!
"Land Rover- Proudly turning drivers into mechanics since 1948"
Post #316642 17th Mar 2014 5:02pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19449

United Kingdom 
Peter (gum) Your right but MT's make it unstoppable then. Wink Just font drive like a maniac on them. (Which I tend yo not do!)
Off road KM2's are amazing. Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #316645 17th Mar 2014 5:08pm
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