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TRR Motorsport



Member Since: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 115
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 ST Galway Green
Rear end shunt to Defender and possible suspension damage
Hi Guys,

you may have read my posts regarding the rear end shunt back in August and the troubles i've had with the insurance company and their engineer.

The vehicle has been off the road for over 3 months and with the bodyshop for 6 weeks. in that time they's changed the rear step, a radius arm and the mudflap. They did a geo check and found that the radius arm brackets on the axle and chassis have pulled backwards. the engineer came to the conclusion that the damage is not the result of the accident.

Now the 110 has been on 2 other ramps and both times its been noted that the radius arm bracket on the axle is angled backwards, indicating that the axle, which as you know sits above the bracket has rolled forwards.

The car that hit my 110 was a Porsche 911 so the front end went under the rear corner of my 110 and hit the rear tyre. in my mind the axle tube has rolled forwards, pivoting on the prop and A-link and in the process has pulled the radius arms brackets backwards as a reaction force.

I'm now entering into an argument with the engineers, who quite clearly don't want to pay out. what i'd like to know is has anyone had a similar rear end shunt and was the effect on the rear suspension the same or different? "If it ain't sideways, you just ain't tryin'!
Post #288821 9th Dec 2013 1:47pm
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Porny
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Member Since: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands
Posts: 796
 
Not seen the same damage...

But the 'engineers' are not engineers! It really annoy's me that they use that term. I'm sure some of them are quite clever... but others are a bit 'special'.

I had a discussion with one that a customers vehicle should have the air condenser changed as it was bent. He disputed this and also inferred that I was lying - and that it didn't need changing.

A strongly worded letter, photographs with circled bits in red so he could see them easily and adding all my letters after my name did the trick (and not just TIT)... lol.

No apology, no dispute - but suddenly the claim got accepted.


Ian IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers.

www.IRBdevelopments.com

www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments

www.integrated316.com

www.facebook.com/integrated316
Post #288832 9th Dec 2013 2:15pm
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TRR Motorsport



Member Since: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 115
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 ST Galway Green
Thanks Ian,

The claim assessor (i wont call him an engineer) in not so many words told me i was a liar the first time he looked at the 110 on my drive. he told me that the mis-alignment of the axle was an optical illusion because the mudflap was missing!

I can see i need to pay for a 'Proper' engineer who understands pyshics to inspect and report on the damage.

Is there anyone on the forum that can fulfill that function? "If it ain't sideways, you just ain't tryin'!
Post #288838 9th Dec 2013 2:21pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5745
United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Would Land Rover have some jig data available? I.e the measurement of the centre of the axle to point x should xxx mm? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #288841 9th Dec 2013 2:26pm
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TRR Motorsport



Member Since: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 115
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 ST Galway Green
The bodyshop sent it to Sturgess in Leicester (Main dealer) on an instruction from the insurers for what they believed was a chassis jig check. instead they just did an alignment check which said what we all knew. that the rear axle is about 5mm out of alignment.

this isnt the issue though. the problem is that the 'vehicle inspector' will not accept that the damage was caused by this accident. I've owned the 110 since new and i know it has not been damaged before but i'm under the impression that the assessor thinks i'm trying it on. "If it ain't sideways, you just ain't tryin'!
Post #288843 9th Dec 2013 2:32pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769
England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Ask your insurer for a senior assessor and make sure your there when the defender is checked over. Ask them how the brackets are supposed to have moved at another time as this is the only accident in the vehicle
Post #288847 9th Dec 2013 3:11pm
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bell-auto-services



Member Since: 08 Jul 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2232
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Porny wrote:


I'm sure some of them are quite clever... but others are a bit 'special'.



Ian


Lol. Class Thumbs Up
Post #288931 9th Dec 2013 7:33pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Do you have any photographs of the accident itself? You could always go to the insurance ombudsman with the issue and back it up with as much evidence as you can muster. Forget about mudslinging and innuendos with these to55 pots. Ratchet it up a level.

Thumbs Up If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #288946 9th Dec 2013 8:26pm
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TRR Motorsport



Member Since: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 115
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 ST Galway Green
Thanks Guys. I'm going to inspect it tomorrow so will take photos.

I like the idea of wanting to meet the assessor there and then asking how the damage was supposed to of happened if not during the accident.

I'll keep you posted.

needless to say Adrian Flux and Markerstudy (the insurer are not on my Christmas list. "If it ain't sideways, you just ain't tryin'!
Post #288956 9th Dec 2013 8:47pm
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Shirty Carpet



Member Since: 10 Nov 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 25
United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey
I'm insured with MarkerStudy through Adrian Flux, so will watch with interest!
I wish you well. (Admittedly my reasons are partly selfish!)
Post #289015 9th Dec 2013 11:09pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610
United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
I have experience (BAD I hasten to add) too of those underwriters.....The way I was treated as a customer was abysmal.

From some older threads.....One of them yours I note....

K9F wrote:
as the policy won't be underwritten by Markerstudy, provide all the cover I need and are competative, I for one will be happy and probably willing to switch perhaps? Welcome to the forum. Thumbs Up


K9F wrote:
Markerstudy are NOT a good underwriters in my book and the issue may be with them and not AF. Despite having no damage to my vehicle and not being at fault I declared the accident and received an offensive letter from Markerstudy stating that if they did not receive a photocopy of my driving licence they would cancel my policy in 7 days. What sort of attitude is that? On renewal I insisted I wanted nothing more to do with Markerstudy and got AF to provide me with another underwriter.
 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #289016 9th Dec 2013 11:11pm
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SteveG



Member Since: 29 Nov 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 656
2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Belize Green
Have you measured the distance between front and rear radius arm mounts on each side? It wasn't until I had a similar shunt to you with a. Astra hitting me up the rear that I noticed I had a 90" wheelbase on one side and about a ~91" on the other. On mine it clearly left the factory like that! Shocked

Cheers

Steve
Post #289049 10th Dec 2013 12:41am
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TRR Motorsport



Member Since: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 115
United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 ST Galway Green
Well after a hell of a lot of effort the 110 appeared briefly back on my drive this morning.

But only long enough for me to spot the chuffing great crease across the roof just behind the alpine window and a dent on the roof!

looks like it's had something dropped across it or more likely its fit the underside of a 'Z' purlin on the underside of the workshop roof when it was on a ramp!

Obviously i'm far from happy Confused "If it ain't sideways, you just ain't tryin'!
Post #289471 11th Dec 2013 2:21pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1728
France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Firstly well spotted!

Secondly have they fixed the bent suspension / brackets?

Thirdly good luck Rolling Eyes

Keith
Post #289641 11th Dec 2013 10:23pm
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randallised



Member Since: 30 Apr 2012
Location: Doolin
Posts: 18
Ireland 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Java Black
Hi I used to repair accident damaged vehicles on a jig, defenders included. If its more than 3mm out its accident damage to be sure. Car-o-liner do data sheets so you can measure any given point. Call into a bodyshop and get them to photocopy one for you. Then measure a known distance between two points against yours. Then get the insurance company to explain how this got bent otherwise. Goodluck.
Post #291416 18th Dec 2013 2:47pm
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