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| SteveG Member Since: 29 Nov 2011 Location: Norfolk Posts: 656  
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Personally, I would buy Gwynn Lewis challenge kit front & rear. Gwyn's cranked HD trailing arms, extended break hoses, OME shocks and standard LR HD springs.
This will cope with almost all that you throw at it off road and give good on road handling. Want better on road stiffness, add X-Eng locking ARB as you've suggested. After trying loads of shocks, OME always are good quality, but appear to have good reviews Koni HD too, so if they do one to fit Gwyn's kit that would be an option too, or if you have the funds Ohlin remote reservoir shocks are very good, but completely OTT. Cheers Steve |
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20th Oct 2013 8:05am |
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| Roby466 Member Since: 20 Oct 2013 Location: London Posts: 2  
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Nice looking ride!
I'm in the same boat right now for my 110 TD5. I haven't installed a suspension kit on a Defender before but based on my previous experience with a Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ and an older Land Cruiser, I am leaning towards a full OME setup. I found that they allowed for great offroad and better on road capability than the original setup. On road comfort is important as I haul my 3 children and my wife on long trips so the drive to and from the trail is as important ad the trail ride itself. Others will probably share more relevant experience about OMEbon a Defender but I found that they took pride to size their suspension properly instead of just going hardcore. |
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20th Oct 2013 10:02am |
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| Pam W Member Since: 25 Oct 2011 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1169  
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I have Koni Heavy Tracks on mine (the standard +2s, not the RAIDs) and they are a very comfortable ride on road, good handling, etc. Paired up with some Britpart HD lifted spring. I know a lot of people don't have much good to say about Britpart but we've used expensive 'specialist' springs, Land Rover springs etc and they all seem to last about the same for durability as the Britpart ones, so I'm happy to use them, others make their own choices....
My 90 is being specifically set up for expedition and carrying heavy loads over rough terrain and tarmac, so we did calculations based on weight, weight distribution, required ground clearance, etc. But then again it is my daily drive so needs to be comfortable ride, handling and body height when it isn't fully loaded. I think we've got it pretty much spot on. What I'd say is look at what you want to do - don't go for a "kit" unless all the component parts are going to do what you want... If you are 70 on road use, 30 medium-severity off road. For example - why go for a Challenge kit which is designed for 90% extreme off road? Have a good look around and see if you can pick and choose springs, shocks, turrets, re-location cones, etc, to fit what you need, before looking at specialist kits. Our blog - http://landytravels.com/ Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net |
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20th Oct 2013 2:23pm |
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| taazzukcb Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 663 
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Thanks for the advice so far.
I have been trying to work this out for some time now, and just got to a point where I had to ask before I pulled me hair out! I was thinking the Koni +2's with lift springs, but I know insurers don't like lifts and I've read many'a topic with people saying it doesn't make much difference unless you are catching the base of the bodywork often, as obviously the GC doesn't change with a lift kit, it just raises the body! SteveG, I'f love the challenge kit, but A) The price stings a little, especially considering the shocks on top and B) I just think it may be derogatory towards my on-road stability as the challenge kits are for 5" lifts IIRC. I want to try and avoid the cost of cranked arms to unless I go for some sort of lift. I'd rather chuck the money from cranked arms towards the X-Deflex I think!? In terms of shock, I'm actually a little put off my OME ... I've seen quite a few threads recently with not overly great things to say, especially from down under! Just recently people have said their quality has dropped ever so slightly! I'd love Ohlins to, but I save Ohlins kit for me 2-Wheeled vehicles  .
The TF +2" Remote Reservoirs seem to have had some favourable reviews! Though TF overal, dont have the best of names, but not to bad! I don't want to go for a kit really, that's why I'm trying to piece together my own set-up, just so many options ... Cheers for the advice so far and would to hear some more! |
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20th Oct 2013 5:49pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 7687 
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shock wise TF or Procomp if you want budget, seals will go with time and they corrode but 5years with no damage and they will last and are good value for money. If you have the ££ i would spend out on OME over Koni every time.
if you want greater flex off road then consider +2"s shocks on std supsension or +2" shocks if your going for a lift of 2". For daily use it doesnt need +2" ride height. if you go for taller suspension or longer shcoks with stock think abotu spring retaining rear or dislcoation if you go to +2" ride height then think about changing brake lines front too. it looks low to me, i would be tempted to change springs only to start with if <80k>80k then do the shocks too. OME or Eibach are great in my experience and will have poundage to suit your needs. failing that i would fit std either stock or HD versions. the steerings arms (of which one is unsprung anyway) and the steering guard wont add noticeable affect to the springs. Cheers James 110 XS Utility 130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making) 90 Puma Hardtop |
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20th Oct 2013 8:12pm |
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| SteveG Member Since: 29 Nov 2011 Location: Norfolk Posts: 656
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This is a tad naive. The only aspect of Gwyn's challenge set up that affects on road handling is the altered shock angle of the rear shocks. Use the OME shocks, however, and you get better on road damping than LR std shocks, even with altered rear shock angle. As to descriptions like 'medium' 'extreme' 'soft' these are more marketing terms than anything else. Off road is off road. The best thing off road no matter what the conditions is consistent control and traction. An off road travel ability of this suspension setup provides this as much as possible. The extra control and traction afforded by Gwyn's challenge set up is just as beneficial on a green lane as to a winch challenge course. The OP was asking for advice, and I provided my personal opinion based on experience of trying numerous suspension set ups and systems. I'm by no means a vastly experienced off road driver or a suspension expert, however, I do know that if he fitted Gwyn's setup he would have a vastly competent arrangement that will last the life of the vehicle. It's fully galvanised, cost is good value it works, so it gets a good endorsement from me. For OP - no idea on latest quality of OME, maybe they have gone downhill. Cheers Steve |
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20th Oct 2013 9:30pm |
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| big steve Member Since: 24 Dec 2009 Location: hertfordshire Posts: 2456 
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D44 eibach springs over ome for me every time shocks ome for me but there's a lot of others
Steve 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs 3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit ashcroft atb in transfer box 6 speed auto in build |
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20th Oct 2013 9:49pm |
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| Pam W Member Since: 25 Oct 2011 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1169
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No need to be rude SteveG, and for your information I am in no way 'naive' about such things,
 - I have been around the off-roading scene for over 20 years and with my husband built/rebuilt several Land Rovers, been involved with the Challenge scene since its early days in the 2000s.... We currently have a Challenge Defender and my 90 recently converted from road biased to expedition biased.
We always research the parts we need - to suit the purpose intended, including spreadsheets of data calculations!
My post was in NO WAY a criticism of any particular set-up, GLs or anyone elses, I can't imagine why you think it was! (I have stuff from GL for my motor and Dave has GL stuff on his - selected as appropriate for the job in hand). I was suggesting, quite rightly in my experience, that the OP considers Challenge set up against a more general off road set-up, against majority road use/light off road setup, depending on what he intends for the vehicle. Sensible, not critical of any particular set-up and not naive. As I said previously - and stand by 100%
Cheers.  Our blog - http://landytravels.com/
Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net |
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20th Oct 2013 9:57pm |
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| taazzukcb Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 663
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Thanks to all for some more advice, it is all genuinely appreciated.
I hope I've not caused a ruckas though, so please don't got falling out over my thread :p! I have to admit, I sort of rendered off a lift, due to opinions I've read stating that a 2" lift on-road is quite an interesting ride! I have also considered putting the +2 shock on, with standard HD springs as well, but again read somewhere of the possibility of the shocks over compressing and damaging it's own body. What I have thought though was perhaps the HD springs are said to run around a 20-30mm lift purely for the fact they require more laden weight to drop them down! So perhaps this could help compensate. I know there's bigger bump stops, but I don't want to ruin my articulation just to gain a little droop. As to the comment about it looking like mine is sitting low, it is! The suspension is very very tired and I wallow about like a jelly boat! The steering arms and guard perhaps shouldn't make to much difference, but again most probably down to the tiredness of my suspension, it was most definitely noticed and the nose dive on braking has increased as has the front roll on roundabouts etc. I can very easily get the back end out due to weight transfer to the front! It's not dangerous, just requires some considerate driving :p! Shock wise, I dont want to skimp to much, but I dont think I can really stretch to a whole challenge kit, though have a few bits of GL, and his stuff always impresses me and his service when things aren't quite right are fantastic! I will look again into OME, but their shocks are almost at Koni RAID prices as far as I can find at the moment, thought not looked to in depth yet! Out of interest, am I right in thinking the GL challenge kit is only for +5" lifts? Or can this be used on Standard or +2"? JST: Shocks are most definitely gone! The clocks say 68000, but that is almost 100% not to be correct, at a pure guess, I think some of it is on for 150,000 or so ... Keep the advice flowing  , it's all helping!
EDIT: Just thought ... I've also been considering the Disco Isolation rings as well to give a little initial absorption, so could perhaps run a slightly stiffer spring with these top and bottom, front and back!? |
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20th Oct 2013 10:27pm |
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| SteveG Member Since: 29 Nov 2011 Location: Norfolk Posts: 656
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No need to overreact PAM my comment was not in response to any sensitity about Gwyn or his 'kit'. I like quite a bit of his products, but im no way a fanboy
I also wasn't questioning your character or experience, however, you were naive in your statement that infrerred something designed for 'extreme' off roading would be no good on road,.If you still stand by that statement then I'm right to question it. The Challenge kit is not too extreme for someone who spends 90, 50, 30 or 5 percent of their time off road. Fitted with the right shock it's better on road than the standard LR set up. To OP. Not all +2" shocks will have issues with standard height springs. The issue is that most manufacturers don't publish maximum compression lengths so it can become expensive to experiment. Anything over 1" lift and you'll start to run risk of diff pinion leaks. Go 2" and above and you risk vibrationsetc due to prop angles falling out of operational range of standard props. FYI - The rubber isolators, don't isolate that much. The reason for my initial suggestion of Gwyn's challenge setup with decent shocks and standard hd springs is that from personal experience, it works extremely well on road and off and saves expensive experimentation. You asked for advice I gave it
Cheers Steve |
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20th Oct 2013 11:59pm |
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| SteveG Member Since: 29 Nov 2011 Location: Norfolk Posts: 656
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Can't comment on other makes, but with procomp and OME shocks it works just fine with std HD springs. As per JST's post quality and also damping ability means I wouldn't recommend them either. Cheers Steve |
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21st Oct 2013 12:05am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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I dont think you can go wrong as many people have said with the Koni Heavy Track dampers. I would definately get the +2's as they can be fitted with standard height springs, and give more articulation. Just make sure you have dislocation cones on the back. I run this setup and it works great off road with plenty of articulation which is what you need.
For springs, I did quite a bit of research and eventually bought the ones from Flatdog who sell basically every combination. I went in the end for standard height and standard weight.... i.e standard! My landy is a 90 (hardtop) and has all the stuff your thinking of bolting on and more so weight wise its probably heavier (and ive got a roof, which your planning on removing!). Im only at this point thinking of putting some heavier duty springs on it to counteract the extra weight. in short, id get these (obviously you need to check fitment!) Koni +2 Heavy Tracks http://www.flatdoguk.com/koni-heavy-track-%2B2~503 Std Shock Towers (mine were shot, and the design of the originals is a rust trap) http://www.flatdoguk.com/fd-front-shock-turrets-std-yellow~429 Dislocation Cones http://www.flatdoguk.com/rear-reversible-d...yellow~900 (if you run +2 shocks and std springs you will need these as the spring can dislocate from the shock mount at the top) Standard Height / Standard Weight Springs http://www.flatdoguk.com/def-90-std%2Fstd~255 (Gives me comfort when the retailer actually knows the poundage and they are handed!) |
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21st Oct 2013 9:29am |
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| taazzukcb Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 663
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Interesting you mention the FD springs ... Are these made by the same people who make the Orange one's from Extreme 4x4?
The only real mention I can find on these suggest the FD springs are shorter than standard? Did you find this at all? Also interesting to know that the Challenge should work with normal shocks! Could be tempting! Though probably outside by my budgets for the moment. I will be ordering new turrets as well as suggested as I want to get it all changed, just so I have a physical record of when stuffs been done! Plus, I'm pretty sure mine wont be in the best of general health! |
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21st Oct 2013 1:05pm |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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not sure if they are, but you find that going on a lot in the LR world. Just look at the safari equip stuff which is sold by lots of people.
ive had no issues at all with the springs i purchased from FD. They definately werent shorter than standard, but its always hard to tell when your comparing to springs your taking off. my vehicle has winch bumper, winch, 10mm steel steering guard, tree sliders, rear recovery receiver, 3mm chequer plate, lights and associated accessories, metal boxes in the back and 2 batteries, so its carrying a fair bit of weight. Its only since the winch went in im thinking of beefier springs. Im either going for +2" std weight or std height HD weight next time.  choices choices.
For off road you want the softest setup you can get. Hard springs are enemy of good articulation. However on the road you want something a bit harder! compromises  |
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21st Oct 2013 2:41pm |
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