 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Anyone in the know/have any info? |
 
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2724  
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As title says really, anyone have any info?
Heard that the DC100 has been scrapped, and supposedly the defender will be the first of the 'land rover' side to be updated after LR have just finished updating the RR range ending with the RRS. Genuinely think LR have a chance to make the best 4x4 ever built! Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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20th Aug 2013 9:19pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2724
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Always the optimist eh?! Haha If they do as good a job of replacing the Def as they did the RR then well be in for some luck! Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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20th Aug 2013 9:43pm |
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| Lou Sparts Member Since: 15 Apr 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 1501 
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I think the Defender will be the last to be updated/replaced.
The Discovery will be first as this will use the same platform as the new RR sport,Then the Freelander 2 will need to be replaced as this is a bit long in the tooth and has already had a mid life facelift. Then we may get a Defender replacement when the T5 platform has served its time under the Disco and RR sport. Just my opinion of course. 2005 Td5 90 XS Steve |
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20th Aug 2013 9:54pm |
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| Cheshire110 Member Since: 26 Jul 2013 Location: Cheshire/London Posts: 2724
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Sounds reasonable, but the guy at my local dealership seemed to think it would be Defender, Freeelander then 2 Discoveries (a smaller and a larger one). Supposedly there may also be a freelander 7seat option. One thing which seems to be consistent though is that I would expect the defender to be a very modern take on the land rover. Think less ladder chassis and bolt on body and more plastic scuff panels and chunky wash down appearance.. And a large central touchscreen will apparently control all. Surprising nothing leaked as with the RR and Evoque, so looks like it's not imminent. Cheers, David Land Rovers of all shapes S3 onwards… Daily is a 110 V8. |
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20th Aug 2013 10:13pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3753  
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Well they're certainly not "letting the cat out of the bag" are they....nothing known about this in Aus either.
Lots of speculation in the press everywhere, but no FACTS anywhere at all. In terms of the small number of Defender sales relative to total production, whilst the "Historic" image of Defender maintains its importance to LandRover's character, Defender is obviously not as important as it used to be. Whatever it turns out to be, it will be interesting to see how they retain Defender's "character". I reckon the replacement is probably 3 years away. In Australia it's been said that "Rules & Regulations" could see the end of Defender sales in Aus before production actually finishes, because eventually all vehicles in Aus will require air bags....which the current Defender doesn't have. Cheers, Pickles. |
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20th Aug 2013 11:10pm |
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| roamingman Member Since: 15 Mar 2012 Location: nearly thier Posts: 152 
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I think the Defender will be replaced by a D3/4 but will not really be a replacement, Not enough people buying Defenders, Tata will build there own version 4x4 for third world countries, but for the Europe, America, Australia, will have more electricity.
No longer the farmers wash out the cab with a hose. Live Life Ti'l You Die Teddys are out thier http://teddybearspicnic.webs.com http://130sasha.co.uk/ |
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21st Aug 2013 1:02pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 415 
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I'd still argue the lack of sales is a few very basic things: * There is still a very prevalent notion that Landies are unreliable. I've heard it time and time again as a justification for why some company or person did not buy a Defender for a job that would otherwise be well suited for it. This is a huge issue for the company in this space, and probably the most important to address. * There are several places where the Defender cannot be sold. Including the all-important American market. Even here in Finland (within the EU), the prices are very steep due to a mixture of things. * It isn't actually marketed much. Land Rover management seems to be all about premium this and that, with the Defender almost feeling like an embarrassment, instead of the incredible asset that it is (there's a real halo effect from it). I think the Defender is selling despite that marketing, and despite Land Rover, not because of it (due to its iconic nature). Additionally it seems many militaries have moved to G Wagons and similar. You've got to wonder why? Better support? Reliability issues? Something else? It's certainly not because of price... |
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23rd Aug 2013 1:21pm |
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| Skye_Rover Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Skye Posts: 85 
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The T5 platform has had its day under the D3/D4 (and latterly the RRS). LR cannot carry-on building heavy vehicles like that any more, and a new lightweight series of platforms will have to take over. However, this could be good for Defender; the T5, maybe in modified form, will support a loose collection of lightweight body panels, as it is a chassis in its own right, and that is similar to the current Defender. Its a strong platform that has proven itself under crash testing with a monster of a body strapped to it, so could be imagined to perform adequately with a lightweight (plastic / composite?) series of panels supported on top. It is currently in production, the tooling should have been paid-off ages ago, and many bits can fit that are also in production at the moment. Just a thought (of many that I have had regarding how I would engineer the new Defender to meet the needs of the developing world countries, as well as rural communities in the UK) which I am happy to be proved wrong about! Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
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1st Sep 2013 10:09pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3753
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G'day from Australia, Skye.
I've read this, & enjoyed reading your other post re the future of Defender. Australia used to be a relatively large market for Defender, but not any more.....it has simply been smothered under the Japanese/Korean/Chinese etc etc "invasion" that has occurred in Oz over the last twenty years or so. There is a HUGE variety of similar units to chose from, in all shapes & sizes, many more powerful, more practical, & cheaper than the Defender, which I would suggest doesn't really have a commercial market in Aus any more...it is really an "enthusiasts" vehicle. The Toyota Hi-Lux is the main "offender"...it is Australia's most popular vehicle....and I would NEVER want to own one. There is so much competition, even from within LandRover....I mean years ago all of those people that are currently buying Discoverys, Freelanders, & even Range Rovers I suppose, would've bought a Defender, but now they choose not to? I would welcome your views on what sort of vehicle the new Defender could/should be. Cheers, Pickles. |
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1st Sep 2013 11:19pm |
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| Skye_Rover Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Skye Posts: 85
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Hi from the Highlands, Pickles,
I guess that you have the perfect example in Oz of how a market can be abandoned for the silliest of reasons; if Toyota could do it, why not Landrover? The HiLux has to be the best example I can think-off as to where the Defender should be going back to its roots, maybe also the L200 Mitsubishi. Both are strong sellers in the market here on the West Coast, although mostly as pre-owned. Both can be as simple or as "tarted" as you like. Both seem to have moved a little bit towards the "lifestyle" market here in the UK (maybe it's just the UK that doesn't know a good thing when it had it?). Both have been bought in big numbers by farmers and other "serious" users. Personally, I don't like the vehicles, but that is partly because I specialise in electrical repairs, and either is a nuisance to sort out the wiring. Some time back, I put together a list of what made a Defender "useful", with the thought of prototyping a kit that could extend the lives of the Landrovers still on the road. I bounced a few ideas around with a good mate (still a good mate after I sold him my 109" Diesel.....) who added a few of his own. Not everything that makes a Defender useful also makes it desirable, so I guess that is where you have to get your marketing sorted-out. One example on the roads in the Highlands is the narrow bodywork, which means you can pass other vehicles more easily on tight sections. It also means that three-abreast seating is out, so I reckoned you just loose the centre seat and be done with it! All the best, and maybe I'll publish the list for critique and comment!! Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads. |
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2nd Sep 2013 10:06pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3753
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"Skye" Thanks for that.
I've actually been to Skye....some places you might be familiar with....Tongadale Hotel, Kilt Rock, Castle Moil,? A truly beautiful place. Cheers, Pickles. |
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2nd Sep 2013 10:58pm |
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| Skye_Rover Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Skye Posts: 85
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Unfortunately, Tongadale Hotel is in the city of Portree, so I haven't visited recently. I am not allowed out of the glen very much these days.
 Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads. |
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2nd Sep 2013 11:25pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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I agree that LR management appear to see the Defender as a bit of a millstone around their necks. The emergence of Range Rover as a separate brand rather than just a model line creates space for the company to move on and possibly leave the Defender behind. I'm guessing that the volume and profitability of the new models means that a Defender replacement is not really a high priority; and a particularly difficult issue when you consider trying to update such an iconic vehicle against a market that doesn't really want it radically updated. |
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3rd Sep 2013 9:48am |
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| Skye_Rover Member Since: 30 Aug 2013 Location: Skye Posts: 85
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The issue that will be affecting Landrover is that all of the Engineering teams are converged from Landrover of the early 2000's and Jaguar Cars. Which means that whatever understanding there was of Defender, now has been diluted to the point that it really is an embarrassment to work on the thing. Hence the technical leadership is aimed where there are the best synergies, RangeRover and Jaguar, and what we are seeing is the former moving in the technical direction of a 4x4 Jaguar. The longer that the individual Engineering teams do not work on Defender-replacement, the worse the situation is becoming, as personnel ebb and flow out of the company to the point that a)nobody drives a Defender as their own car, and b)there is nobody to inspire and sort of leadership of new staff to appreciate what Defender has to do out in the wide world. One example; Puma TDCi for 2007 got a whole load of "handling" improvements, which is great if you want to throw it around a race track, but actually makes the thing a whole lot less comfortable to drive, the way a Defender can drive, than any previous model since the Sers.III. Spring rates and anti-roll bars leave the vehicle (particularly the 110") fidgeting all over the road, and spoil the experience. One of my local customers bought a 10MY 2.4Puma, and was quite disappointed when it didn't smooth the roads out like my 300Tdi (even though my 110CSW will drag the door handles on all the bends!). Any seasoned Defender owner would know that you can push the earlier vehicles through the bends just as quickly, with plenty of warning when things are about to slide, albeit in a more "spectacular" fashion
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads. |
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5th Sep 2013 12:29am |
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