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Bev



Member Since: 03 Apr 2013
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 266

Scotland 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
Removing the EGR on a 10 year old car?
Hi folks,

With my new found confidence to do some things mechanical I was thinking about whether it would be good/ wise to fit the blanking kit on the TD5.

I have only just got the car and its been running perfectly for the last 10 years so the question is would it make a difference after all this time or would it just be a case of being nice to the engine Rolling Eyes

Another weekend with the oily spanners beckons Rolling with laughter

Cheers
Christian
Post #228787 19th Apr 2013 10:46am
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19620

United Kingdom 
Yes, it will still make a difference. If they are anything like the Puma's EGR's then they are an utter pain to mess with. Neutral Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽ï¸ðŸ›¢ï¸ðŸ‘¨â€ðŸ”§ðŸ§°âš™ï¸ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧
Post #228788 19th Apr 2013 10:48am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16907

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Yes, definitely. I de-EGRed my TD5 Disco after I'd had it for about 4 years (which was bout 80k miles) and immediately wished I'd done it on day 1!

There are various ways to de-EGR the TD5 but it is definitely worth removing the EGR valve body and replacing it with a plain pipe (as suplied in all the kits) rather than simply knobbling it so that it doesn't operate. If you have the EGR cooler fitted to the front of the block (fitted to the later engines) you can if you wish leave it in situ to avoid having to make any coolant plumbing changes.

I used a D44 kit on mine and it took less than an hour to fit.
Post #228790 19th Apr 2013 11:00am
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Bev



Member Since: 03 Apr 2013
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 266

Scotland 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
It's a 2002 model So not sure on what bits I have and don't have. Will take a picture later and hopefully someday wiser than me will post up what the best solution is Bow down Bow down

Sounds like even after 10 years of operation it's a no brainier to remove it. Time to go searching for a kit now Thumbs Up
Post #228804 19th Apr 2013 11:40am
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Porny
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Member Since: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands
Posts: 795

 
Without looking like i'm spamming...

I offer a proper EGR removal kit - with everything needed to remove the full system properly. With proper blanking caps - not the use of rivet like other peoples kits!

If you are wondering what the EGR does...

What is the EGR and what does it do??

EGR or Exhaust Gas Recirculation.
As its name suggests, the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system allows a controlled amount of spent exhaust gas back into the air intake of the engine. On both Td5 and 300Tdi this is controlled by the vehicle ECU (Tdi has a standalone ECU for the EGR).
The purpose of recirculating a percentage of the exhaust gas is to reduce nitrous oxide emissions and combustion noise, recirculating a percentage of exhaust gas reduces the combustion temperature and slows down the fuel burn rate - which leads to reduced emissions, but also reduces performance. Although the EGR only works at certain part load conditions, removing it completely makes a marked difference in performance, and will possibly also lead to improved mpg.

Why should I remove it??

As mentioned above, removing the EGR system completely will usually make a difference to performance, and can lead to improved mpg - however that is only part of the story.
When the EGR system works correctly, then it should only operate at part load, part throttle conditions - i.e. the times when you, as the driver, shouldn't notice its operation. But this isn't always the case. On both 300Tdi and Td5's it is very common for the solenoid valve to become clogged internally, which prevents it from sealing correctly. When this happens, performance and MPG will be substantially impaired... it is also very bad for the engine. If the percentage of EGR is too high, rapid engine wear (bore wear) will rapidly occur.
The EGR gas will also soot/clog up the inlet manifold as shown in the pictures below. On Td5's this can cause problems with the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor.

Looking at it from another point of view, removing the EGR basically means there is one less thing to go wrong!! You should also remove the EGR if you regularly use high Sulpher diesel (in the UK, all diesel is low Sulpher)

Does it cause any problems at MOT time??

The current 2010 MOT system for Diesel (i.e. compression ignition) vehicles only requires an Opacity test, (i.e. smoke) and not an actual emissions test as per petrol (spark ignition engine).
The EGR system (and the catalytic converter for that matter) does not actively affect smoke…. This differs from a diesel particulate filter (which is also exempt from testing at the current time). The only requirement is that the max smoke value for a turbo charged diesel is a mean (of the last 3 smoke tests) not exceeding 3.00m-1. For an initial 'fast pass' the smoke value must be below 1.50m-1.

In simple terms.... the only reason a modern diesel have CATs and EGR (along with other things) is to enable a manufacturer to meet the current EU legislation (for example EU4/5), but once a vehicle model has been type approved, and sold to the customer... the customer is technically free to do what they like regarding emissions, as long as they meet the requirements of their country, which in the UK is just the MOT test.



Taken from my website Thumbs Up


Ian IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers.

www.IRBdevelopments.com

www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments

www.integrated316.com

www.facebook.com/integrated316
Post #228816 19th Apr 2013 11:59am
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Bev



Member Since: 03 Apr 2013
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 266

Scotland 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
It looks like your whole website is down at the moment so I can't buy anything there Rolling with laughter

I have a look around for a kit now it seems sensible to make the changes even after all this time.

Cheers
Post #228909 19th Apr 2013 4:51pm
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borderterrier



Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
I did my old TD5 and it did appear to make a difference, not to fuel consumption but it did to the way it pulled. Don't buy a cheap blanking kit, they warp.
Post #228912 19th Apr 2013 5:02pm
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adafish



Member Since: 30 Mar 2009
Location: atherstone
Posts: 1376

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 110 300 Tdi DCPU Stornoway Grey
90 Bev wrote:
It looks like your whole website is down at the moment so I can't buy anything there Rolling with laughter

I have a look around for a kit now it seems sensible to make the changes even after all this time.

Cheers
......not down, just under development.... Thumbs Up Putting Dreams on Drives at JLR Solihull..
Post #228951 19th Apr 2013 7:01pm
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Bev



Member Since: 03 Apr 2013
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 266

Scotland 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
Well Tool of the Year award possibly goes to myself. Upon removing the Engine cover I'm confronted with the below:


Click image to enlarge


Guess that means someone beat me to removing the EGR then... it has D44 stamped on the insert. Also the Blank seems to have been applied on the end of this cooler and not the exhaust side?


Click image to enlarge



Need to find out what else has been done to the 90 before I commit time to tinkering so its booked in to Strathearn on Wednesday for a good going over.

Out of interest what bolts in to here on the engine? Looks like some empty mounts. Apologies for the stupid question. Could not think what to "search" for on the forum.


Click image to enlarge
Post #229394 21st Apr 2013 4:56pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
I think that space is for an ac comp
Post #229407 21st Apr 2013 5:41pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6041

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
mk1collector wrote:
I think that space is for an ac comp



It is.
Post #229410 21st Apr 2013 5:46pm
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Bev



Member Since: 03 Apr 2013
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 266

Scotland 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
Thanks guys, I don't have AC as I thought that was what the windows for for Smile
Post #229425 21st Apr 2013 6:46pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Expanding on what Porny stated here's some info Dgardel posted from three years ago.......

dgardel wrote:
The EGR valve recirculate, in same engine rpm, Temp, and load conditions, controlled part of exhaust gases to the inlet manifold.

In this way the engine run with lower combustion temperature and produce less NOx
LINK1
LINK2



In modern diesel engines, the EGR gas is cooled through a heat exchanger to allow the introduction of a greater mass of recirculated gas. Unlike SI engines, diesels are not limited by the need for a contiguous flamefront; furthermore, since diesels always operate with excess air, they benefit from EGR rates as high as 50% (at idle, where there is otherwise a very large amount of excess air) in controlling NOx emissions.
Since diesel engines are unthrottled, EGR does not lower throttling losses in the way that it does for SI engines (see above). However, exhaust gas (largely carbon dioxide and water vapor) has a higher specific heat than air, and so it still serves to lower peak combustion temperatures. There are trade offs however. Adding EGR to a diesel reduces the specific heat ratio of the combustion gases in the power stroke. This reduces the amount of power that can be extracted by the piston. EGR also tends to reduce the amount of fuel burned in the power stroke. This is evident by the increase in particulate emissions that corresponds to an increase in EGR. Particulate matter (mainly carbon) that is not burned in the power stroke is wasted energy. Stricter regulations on particulate matter(PM) call for further emission controls to be introduced to compensate for the PM emissions introduced by EGR. The most common is particulate filters in the exhaust system that result in reduced fuel efficiency. Since EGR increases the amount of PM that must be dealt with and reduces the exhaust gas temperatures and available oxygen these filters need to function properly to burn off soot, automakers have had to consider injecting fuel and air directly into the exhaust system to keep these filters from plugging up.

EGR deletion
EGR deletion in diesel engines is considered justifiable by a wide range of people, including the environmentally conscious. Although deleting the EGR system results in increased NOx level; hydrocarbon emissions, particulates, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide are drastically reduced. Furthermore, EGR deletion results in an increase in fuel economy as high as 25%. Exhaust gas recirculated back into the cylinders adds wear-inducing contaminants and causes an increase engine oil acidity, which can result in an inefficient, poorly running engine. The increased level of soot also creates the need for diesel particulate filters to prevent environmental contamination.
 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #229439 21st Apr 2013 7:35pm
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adafish



Member Since: 30 Mar 2009
Location: atherstone
Posts: 1376

United Kingdom 1984 Defender 110 300 Tdi DCPU Stornoway Grey
good job it never got sent then Chris....its all in box waiting too... Thumbs Up Putting Dreams on Drives at JLR Solihull..
Post #229445 21st Apr 2013 7:45pm
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Bev



Member Since: 03 Apr 2013
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 266

Scotland 2003 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Oslo Blue
That will teach me to check first Thumbs Up ah well some more money spare for other projects. Whistle
Post #229448 21st Apr 2013 7:55pm
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