 | Home > Technical > ATB (torsen) front and rear install |
 
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11  
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And is there a difference between ATB (Ashcroft) and TrueTrac in “how they work (technically)?(Ashcroft says that they work a bit different? But I could not find the difference in there explication on there homepage); so why there exists a front and rear TrueTrac and just one ATB typ?
Thanks for you comments. |
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5th Nov 2015 5:26pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858  
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There's no technical reason why an ATB should be designed with a full lock capability as well, the two are not mutually exclusive. I don't think anyone has done it though. I imagine the market is limited and it wouldn't be cheap.
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5th Nov 2015 5:41pm |
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11
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I thin that you are right. But as they are not on the market it dosen't make much sense to think about this locker/diff crossover (but still interesting)
But maybe you can help me with my last question bevor ordering 
Maybe a last question as you are using for long period ATB: What about quality issues? I mean Ashcroft’s ATB are in comparison to TrueTrec (not even talking about Quaife) a lot cheaper. How is this possible? Do you think that on can really trust in Ashcroft’s ATB? How long they are on the market? Are there any problems known? On the other hand a heard from a big reseller/ Defender garage that in over 20 years they never had a failure with TrueTrac. Thanks |
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5th Nov 2015 6:57pm |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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http://www.kamdiffs.com/products-2/limited-slip-diff/
Not an ATB diff and it works in a different way (clutch plates) but it's basically there. |
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5th Nov 2015 11:23pm |
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11
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..... so warst about quality issues?
"......... I mean Ashcroft’s ATB are in comparison to TrueTrec (not even talking about Quaife) a lot cheaper. How is this possible? Do you think that on can really trust in Ashcroft’s ATB? How long they are on the market? Are there any problems known? On the other hand a heard from a big reseller/ Defender garage that in over 20 years they never had a failure with TrueTrac. " |
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6th Nov 2015 7:31am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971
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I can't personally comment on the ATBs, but Ashcroft have a good reputation, have been going for years and I have some of their bits on my Land Rover. If I was upgrading parts of the driveline (which I'm planning on) then I'd be going with Ashcroft parts.
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6th Nov 2015 9:33am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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ive got a few ashcroft bits. high quality items and no issues to report. In terms of land rover transmissions they are probably #1. ive yet to hear anybody with bad words to say on their full locker for example, whereas the ARB locker has had bad press over the years.
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6th Nov 2015 10:25am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858
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I have had one or more Ashcroft ATBs on my Defender for getting on for 100k miles now, and except as noted below) have had no issues with them at all.
The one diff-related issue I have had since fitting them was my own fault. I fiited an ATB in my front axle after the original single-pin, two-gear LR diff failed catastrophically and locked up. What I hadn't realised at the the time was that in failing the LR diff damaged the splines on the short halfshaft, and due to poor judgement and time pressures I didn't extract and inspect the halfshafts - I just withdrew the swivel hubs enough to fit the new diff. Some time later the damaged splines on the halfshaft failed, but by the time they did so they had damaged the matching splines in the sidegear of the ATB. The diff actually worked fine for several thousand more miles (and actually would still work fine) but the reduced contact area of the damaged splines will wear out halfshafts prematurely. For this reason I replaced the diff. I did strip the diff down to check for any other damage and to see if a replacement side gear could be fitted (sadly Ashcroft did not have any spare side gears available), and I am very impressed with the built quality and the generaly manufacturing standard of the ATB. It is built to s far higher standard than an original LR diff (it is perhaps pertinent to point out that I am a professional engineer and have very fussy standards)! I would also say that over the years I have been enormously impressed with the customer service and after sales service I have received from Ashcroft Transmissions. I have ATBs F&R, HD shafts and flanges F&R, and HD CV joint at the front. Never an issue with any. I cannot comment on how an Ashcroft ATB compares with a Quaife, Tru-Trac, KAM, or other manufacturer, since I have no experience of these others. I have never heard of anyone (other than me) having any problems with an Ashcroft ATB. |
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6th Nov 2015 11:51am |
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11
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Thanks again for this very interesting and informative explication of ATB quality.
Now I am sure (this was the last push into the right direction) that I am going to order (this week) ATB for V&R axle. Still thinking about HD-improvements of shafts and flanges, and CV – but I am not sure if this is an “overtreatment”. As I mentioned somewhere in my comments/ questions there are so many opinions about this point; no clear direction – more because we are talking about ATB and not full lockers. Did you change rings & pinion too? So if, what ratio did you choose? What about the “noise-problem” (“fewer, but wider teeth - problem” of the ring) – how bad is it? |
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9th Nov 2015 8:57am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858
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I am running an Ashcroft HD R&P set in the front diff only (they don't make an equivalent for the P38 rear diff) and once it had run in I have had no issues with it at all (it whined a little whilst running in). It is massive and solid compared to the standard LR parts!
This actually means that the front axle ratio is 3.5 to 1, whilst the rear in 3.54 to 1, since the differing teeth numbers on the HD R&P inevitably change the ratio slightly. This is not however a problem at all, since the centre diff sorts it all out (the ratio is so close that it doesn't 'wear out' the centre diff as some would have you believe). If I was doing it all over again though I probably wouldn't bother to fit the HD R&P on what is essentially a road-going, daily driver. It is ideal if you're building a competition vehicle, or putting in a 5.7 V8, but is in all honesty overkill in my application. At the time I was so fed up with the LR diff that failed that I wanted something bomb-proof in the front axle! |
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9th Nov 2015 2:13pm |
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11
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Thanks again for this good information . Yesterday I was thinking about buying ring and pinion too. I thought just in changing everything inside my differential housing. But this morning I remembered your last pot and red it again. So I had to realize that there is no possibility to strengthen my rear diff. with new ring and pinion. This makes me feel a bit sad.
What can I do I find my rings and pinions not looking in the best conditions ? My Landy: TD4 2.4l year 2007 |
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13th Nov 2015 6:11am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16858
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If it was a 90, you could put Ashcroft HD R&P sets in both axles.
If it's a 110 or 130 with a P38 rear diff, the only serious HD upgrade to the rear is to fit the new Ashcroft HD long-nose diff, which takes Rover-type internals (and hence can have the HD R&P set) but requires a custom shortened propshaft. Ashcroft can supply replacement standard R&P sets if you find yours are damaged, however they're pretty tough and unlikely to be damaged unless you've had a catastrophic diff failure. |
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13th Nov 2015 9:25am |
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11
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Thanks.
Yeasterday I did my order (ATB f & r; HD shafts rear & flanges r & f) I didn't order "ring & pinion" - reason: no hd R&P for 110, TD4, 2.4l, year 2007; first our mechanic will proof if there's a damage o not. If so maybe a full rebuild will be necessary and in this case stock products form LR are availible in Germany. Otherwise I would have bought at once HD (R&P) components...... I will give an expiriance "update" in the future...... |
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14th Nov 2015 9:02am |
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| WiZa Member Since: 31 Oct 2015 Location: Großweil Posts: 11
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answer from Ashcroft why HD ring & pinion aren´t possible for rear diff. TD4, 2.4, 2007, 110:
"The dimensions of the rear ring and pinion don't allow for a stronger version, also the weak point is not the gear teeth but the position of the bearings which cannot be changed" ...... |
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14th Nov 2015 1:27pm |
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