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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 3538

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

I suppose the answer boils down to budget versus expected usage. I (and the rest of the French Alps) HAVE to go to work when it’s snowing. No ‘only travel if urgent’ nonsense here. KO2s have worked admirably, Cooper STMaxx less so. But if you’re on hols and don’t have to go out in the snow (choose to stay in, walk to wherever you need to go, go skiing, leave for home early to miss a big dump etc) then a mixed use tyre such as the KO2s with snowflake, should suffice. They’re more than good enough for most conditions bar the worst ice or packed/iced snow roads. But in deep snow or on tarmac that’s cleared, more than good enough. So if you’re not forced to use the tyre when it is working at the extreme limits of usage, why go to the trouble of buying two of everything to change them for just a week’s hols? FYI, last year, when we had the most snow in a generation, I could count on one hand the number of days when the snow was heavy enough to be troublesome and whatsmore, lasted more than a day. None came without warning, so sensible decisions to void it could always be taken. 4-5 days in a total of 150+ days of a winter season. Plus it’s worth remembering that the local authorities are much, much better here at clearing snow. MUCH better. Besides, El Niño has been announced this year, which normally means no snow, so slicks will probably be better Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

Post #728936 14th Sep 2018 3:02pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: north
Posts: 1250

United Kingdom 

I know I've posted it before but the KO2s loved the drifts last winter Smile

Post #728942 14th Sep 2018 3:59pm
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rockster57



Member Since: 15 Nov 2014
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 348

United Kingdom 

I have been reading this thread (and other similar ones) with interest as I will be soon buying a set of hakkapeliitta LT2’s for my 90. Lots of heavy traffic in the area where I live so packed snow road conditions are the norm in adverse weather.

Does anyone have any experience of using the 265/75R16’ LT2’s rather than the 235’s? The Uniroyal info quoted above making me think there might be an advantage in going wider?

Post #728951 14th Sep 2018 5:13pm
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Inigo



Member Since: 13 Nov 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 495

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

I thought my General Grabber AT2s would be OK, as they had the mountain snowflake symbol and were bought to save me having to store a spare set of tyres, although they have been on for about 3 years now. I had a slightly scary pirouette when venturing out in fresh snow on top of compacted snow earlier this year, but didn't hit anything. I chose to use snow chains the next day.


Click image to enlarge


Normally, I have found that the French mountain roads are cleared within hours of any snow falling, but it did snow a lot this year.

Post #729021 14th Sep 2018 10:36pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 3538

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

rockster57 wrote:
I have been reading this thread (and other similar ones) with interest as I will be soon buying a set of hakkapeliitta LT2’s for my 90. Lots of heavy traffic in the area where I live so packed snow road conditions are the norm in adverse weather.

Does anyone have any experience of using the 265/75R16’ LT2’s rather than the 235’s? The Uniroyal info quoted above making me think there might be an advantage in going wider?


Generally everyone here goes slimmer rather than wider, the thought process being that you have a smaller contact patch that needs to grip to the cold tarmac, ice or snow. You’re asking less work of the tyre than if it was nice and fat. Having said that, I would assume, much like mud, that a big fat tyre on a 4x4 in deep snow would be better. But for the road, for a full season where you might get a little bit of ‘everything’ thrown at you, narrower is the way to go. Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

Post #729030 15th Sep 2018 6:22am
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rockster57



Member Since: 15 Nov 2014
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 348

United Kingdom 

Thank you for your advice Monsieur Grenadier.

Post #729036 15th Sep 2018 7:42am
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 289

Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue

I think, that with our cars it is time to look only for exteremes. Deep snow - not a big problem, you can get stuck, but there is very small chance to be surprised by unexpected deep snow. Compacted snow or ice - much bigger problem, you can destroy your car or another car, and kill someone. And you can be surprised to find this condition in next crossing or behind next curve, or you can found there another car, and not be able to stop yours.
This is why I have proper winter tires, for case of bad surprise ahead. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile

Post #729048 15th Sep 2018 9:49am
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Fat Cog



Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: North Oxfordshire
Posts: 183

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

Countryman2 wrote:
My 90 has the original Continental Cross Contact AT M+S 235/85 R 16c tyres. This will be my first winter with the car in the snowy north of England. Although M+S presumably means mud and snow, there is no snowflake symbol. Does anyone know how they will perform in snow? There’s loads of tread left.


Lot of really very unnecessary conundrums being floated about winter & summer tyres...these are bog standard Conti's (as fitted to my 2016 Defender) during last years snow.

Sun, rain, snow, mud...throw it all at most modern 4x4 tyres & you'll be just dandy.



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
 Since 1973...S1, Air Portables, Defenders & finally 2016 90 XS HT & 90 Wolf

Post #729079 15th Sep 2018 2:13pm
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Green Machine



Member Since: 19 Nov 2010
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1108

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Tonga Green

Any AT tyre will perform pretty well in fresh, deep, powdery snow (as a lot of the pics here). Because there's loads of traction available with this type of snow. The powdery snow sticks to itself, and gets trapped into the tread blocks of the tyre. Think about how easy it is to compress powdery snow into a snow ball and how well it sticks together.

The real challenge comes on compacted snow and ice (as others have said). No AT tyre is going to perform anywhere near as well as a genuine winter tyre in these conditions. The design of the tyre and the compounds that they are made from are totally different.

I run 265 wide BFG AT KO (the original design) on my 90 year round, mainly because I like the look of them (which I readily admit is a terrible reason to choose a tyre). They are great in loose, powdery, deep snow - and really NOT that great on compacted snow and ice. The 265 width doesn't help here, but it is mainly the fact that they have no sipes in the tread blocks and are made out of a pretty hard compound. They have no ability to find traction on an icy surface because they weren't designed for it.

On my other car (Golf Gti) I now run two sets of wheels. One with Michelin performance summer tyres from March to October, one with dedicated Continental winter tyres from October to March. The winter tyres were fitted for the first time last year and were a revelation. OK, a performance summer tyre is way worse than an AT in winter conditions, but the winter tyres perform so much better. The grip that they can achieve on compacted snow and icy conditions is quite surprising, and you notice this under braking more than anywhere else.

Only you can decide if it is worthwhile for you to run two sets of wheels (or have the hassle of swapping tyres on one set of wheels), but there can be no doubt that a dedicated winter tyre is significantly better in winter conditions than any non-winter tyre. This seems like stating the obvious, but the number of people who go round suggesting there is little to no difference is amazing (and usually they have never driven on a dedicated winter tyre).

No AT tyre, snowflake marked or not, will come close to the performance of a dedicated winter tyre during heavy braking / steering inputs on compacted snow and ice.

There were several times last winter when I took the Golf over the Defender because of the icy conditions and I knew from experiencing both that the Golf on its winter tyres would be safer than the Defender on its AT's. 2005 Td5 | 90 County Station Wagon | Tonga Green

Post #729086 15th Sep 2018 2:42pm
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JimboSails



Member Since: 14 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 82

United Kingdom 

Thanks for all this input.

What are the implications of buying a WINTER all terrain tyre, and using it year round? Does it just wear faster?

Post #729125 15th Sep 2018 8:33pm
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