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JOW240725



Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Steering judder/vibration not wheel balance
Our 2012 Puma with 58k miles has developed a slight steering judder at speeds 50mph+. Initially, I just thought the wheels needed rebalancing but that hasn't helped. I suspect UJ's, but where to start checking first?

Also if it is a UJ, is there an upgrade I ought to be thinking about?

 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers
Post #724378 20th Aug 2018 4:00pm
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williamthedog



Member Since: 29 Dec 2012
Location: south wales
Posts: 3441

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 PU Tamar Blue
Judder or wobble?
If its a wobble look at swivel preload.
Judder under braking could be warped discs. I think you mean wobble that's the most common problem.
Post #724401 20th Aug 2018 5:31pm
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JOW240725



Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Its exactly like out of balance wheels, whilst driving, certainly not a braking issue. I'll add swivel preload to the list of possibles, thank you.

It'll be my garage man that looks at it but I like to point him in the right direction, so it seems like I know what I'm talking about (he knows I don't!) Embarassed James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers
Post #724406 20th Aug 2018 5:52pm
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Kit



Member Since: 12 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 1110

United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Scotia Grey
Perhaps a weight might have come off one of the wheels? 1993 200 Tdi 90 CSW
1956 Series 1 Hard-top
1958 Series 1 Soft-top
Post #724408 20th Aug 2018 6:03pm
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JOW240725



Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Thanks, but the first I did was get them all rebalanced, so ruled that out. James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers
Post #724410 20th Aug 2018 6:06pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16862

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I would suggest swapping front and rear wheels over before ruling out balance issues. It is not unknown for mistakes to be made. Speed related problems are most commonly wheel/tyre balance related.

Swivel preload, condition of all steering joints, and steering damper would be next on the list to check, together with all front axle suspension bushes. Also check wheel-bearings.
Post #724411 20th Aug 2018 6:13pm
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JOW240725



Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Wheels were all rebalanced by a company I know normally get it right. They also rotated the wheels so pretty sure it isn't wheel related. Thanks, I'll add the suggestions to the list.

Would it be a good excuse to upgrade to the Disco 2 drop arm with sumo bars from Gwyn Lewis? James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers
Post #724423 20th Aug 2018 6:41pm
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CarMan



Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 1777

United Kingdom 
I think it's those awful 16" Bowlers, so why don't you sell them to me as you want the 18's anyway Whistle Rob

1993 200tdi 90 hard-top
1998 300tdi 90 soft-top
2016 2.2 XS 90 hard-top
Post #724425 20th Aug 2018 6:44pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
It's still possible to balance buckled wheels and misshapen tyres. They'll say they're ok on the balancing machine but be terrible at certain speeds on the road.

It's usually visually apparent when you spin the wheel.
Post #724431 20th Aug 2018 6:50pm
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pme



Member Since: 06 Jan 2016
Location: cambridge and mainly ariege
Posts: 49

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Tonga Green
I recall land rover user guide saying NOT to rotate the wheels, something related to crap geometry quality resulting in a specific wear pattern on each corner. I wait to be corrected.
I had something very similar and it was down to a new tyre fitted as the old one was damaged. Michelin latitude cross, took about 500 miles to settle in.
Post #724444 20th Aug 2018 7:28pm
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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10359

United Kingdom 
Check your panhard rod bushes and bolts, as well as your steering damper and tie rod.
Post #724455 20th Aug 2018 8:16pm
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
pme wrote:
I recall land rover user guide saying NOT to rotate the wheels, something related to crap geometry quality resulting in a specific wear pattern on each corner. I wait to be corrected.
I had something very similar and it was down to a new tyre fitted as the old one was damaged. Michelin latitude cross, took about 500 miles to settle in.


All the owner manuals I have had in the past 40 years have had the wording similar to " Do not swap to tyre's round" .
even the workshop manuals say this, the service check sheets have wording similar to " Note the position of each wheel when removing and re attach in the same position".


I remember taking a Disco in to a dealers for service and I watched a mechanic/fitter marking the tyres with chalk and then putting metal paint marker on the studs against the chalk mark.


Now my Indy tells me he swaps the wheels diagonally to get the best wear from the tyres as the front wear off the tread on the inside. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #724530 21st Aug 2018 10:25am
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v8bobber



Member Since: 26 Aug 2012
Location: pembrokeshire
Posts: 437

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Java Black
I had the same problem, funnily enough straight after I put my Bowlers on.

They were balanced pretty badly and had that sorted out but the issue remained. In the end I found that the preload on the swivels was way out (way too loose), one side in particular being very bad. I did the one side and that has pretty much sorted it although I do get a bit of a wobble at around 70 if the road surface is not great. I just need to find time to do the other side.....

It’s easy enough to check by removing the steering joints. I had a spring balance to hand but it was so obvious mine were out as there was virtually no resistance at all
Post #724533 21st Aug 2018 10:54am
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JOW240725



Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7873

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Bowlers have been great up to now and rebalancing/rotating tyres have made no difference to the wobble so pretty sure (but not certain) it's not wheel related. To be fair it isn't bad, I'd not really noticed it, but SWMBO (the daily driver) is insistent something isn't quite right. Last time I ignored her complaint the output shaft went 2 days later Embarassed Shocked

It's being looked on Thursday night, so we'll see. Thanks for all the suggestions! Thumbs Up James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html
MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641
MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557
Instagram @suffolk_rovers
Post #724558 21st Aug 2018 12:54pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Quote:
I remember taking a Disco in to a dealers for service and I watched a mechanic/fitter marking the tyres with chalk and then putting metal paint marker on the studs against the chalk mark.


Sounds like hard work, why not just write FL, FR, RL, RR on the tyres in chalk then wash it off afterwards. Laughing
Post #724570 21st Aug 2018 1:51pm
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