↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma TDCi > Fuel Starvation at higher revs after Filter Change
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 1
Print this entire topic · 
ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 160

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey
Fuel Starvation at higher revs after Filter Change

Hi all, changed the fuel filter yesterday using the toolless method as I have done many times before - e.g. swap filter as quickly as possible with new filter full of clean fuel, start engine, keep revs at 1500 for 3 mins and then I let it idle for a few for good measure.

All was well until I took it for a quick spin, luckily not far, when it cut out on me coming to a stop - the revs declined slowly so definately fuel starvation in the form of an air lock I would assume. It started after turning over 3-4 times, much to my surprise, as I know how difficult they are to bleed without a tool once you get air in there.

Didn't think anything else of it, counting myself lucky, used the Landy again last night and now I have an issue with what feels like fuel starvation at higher revs - particularly noticeable above 2500rmp if you put your foot down it accelerates and then starts hesitating, then accelerates, then hesitates and so on about every 4-5 seconds - just like it's being starved of fuel. Under 2500rmp it drives as normal.

The first thing I'm going to do is change the fuel filter - just in case it's faulty in any way. There is no fuel leaking out of it, but I guess it could possibly be sucking air in if the seal is a little dodgy. Equally I guess it could have disentegrated inside thus blocking some fuel flow.

I don't think this will fix it though - so my next thoughts are the VCV. Is it possible to damage one with an air lock? Is this a common symptom of them starting to fail? I know they're not exactly bullet proof, but from what I've read they normally display more definitive symptoms.

To add to my woes I'm off away in it in a few days - so need to fix it fast! Any advce appreciated as always Wink Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #722622 10th Aug 2018 7:26am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 22

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White

What engine is it 2.2 or 2.4? Has it got a pump in the tank?
What brand of filter did you use?
I have had similar problems using a non genuine filter.
I now only use genuine.
Have you got a gauge that can read fuel rail presure?

Post #722625 10th Aug 2018 7:57am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 8728

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Classic symptoms of a faulty VCV. Could it be that you've dislodged some crud into the system?

I've not hear of one being damaged by an airlock (although it is theoretically possible since it is lubricated by the fuel, I doubt that it would be that quick), but they are very easily damaged by water or dirt.

The symptoms of intermittent fuel starvation, insufficient fuel under high demand, or a lack of responsiveness to changing fuel demand are all symptomatic of the VCV.

Post #722630 10th Aug 2018 8:50am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2195

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Shame I am a bit too far away from you I guess. Also I doubt it's related to air in the pipes as you've managed to start and drive OK.
I built my own priming pump http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516-90.html

Sounds like a dodgy filter, or maybe you are right about another fault (VCV?) appearing in parallel to the change of filter.

I would try a new filter 1st Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Volvo XC70 (Work)
BMW K1200RS

Post #722631 10th Aug 2018 8:52am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Swollock



Member Since: 16 Mar 2013
Location: Wellingborough Northants
Posts: 210

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Bonatti Grey

Did you do a Pump learn and injector calibration after the change. I have found that changing any parts in the fuel system its always helps. 2008 Defender 110 XS CSW
Passat GTE
Triumph Sprint GT1050
G0UBX

Post #722653 10th Aug 2018 11:19am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 160

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Hi all and thanks for the comments.

Unfortunately I don't have a diagnostics system that can do a re-learn - it's on my list of things for when I have some spare cash.

On the plus side I changed the filter for a branded one this morning and I'm pleased to say that everything seems to be back to normal and running much better.

The old possibly faulty unit was a Bearmach own brand and looking at the two the internals of the branded one do look slightly different - including a sort of mini pipe (possibly to dispel air at the bottom of the canister?) in the new one.

Bearmach were not convinced when I bought the other one this morning that theirs would be faulty, but I intend to give it back to them and hopefully get a refund all the same. If they did care they'd test it just to check there wasn't a bad batch or something... Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #722665 10th Aug 2018 12:51pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 8728

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Excellent result.

Post #722667 10th Aug 2018 1:10pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2195

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Great - thanks for posting the fix... one to look out for Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Volvo XC70 (Work)
BMW K1200RS

Post #722668 10th Aug 2018 1:53pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 22

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White

I have had 2 of those without the pipe fail.
Use genuine and you will not have problems.
I convinced that the extra cost is justified as the possible damage by a sub standard filter is huge.
Glad you got it sorted

Post #722773 10th Aug 2018 11:31pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 160

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

That's very interesting, it must be there for a reason and omitting it must be a cost cutting measure.

The 'OEM' one I fitted this morning, that Bearmach supplied at a cost of £22, is made by Clarcor Engine Mobile Group and has Made in the USA printed on it.

This may sound silly but I'm sure it felt heavier too!

Whilst I am relieved about the whole situation I'll be waiting for the VCV to play up now!!! Whistle Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #722774 11th Aug 2018 12:26am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Hi ozzie1989. Thanks for posting your experience with a low cost filter.

I was debating using one a few months ago and created a post asking if the "cheap" filters, were just re-branded OE ones.
The conclusion was that they weren't, so I went with a Mahle filter in the end which is definitely manufactured by Stanadyne / Clarcor.

After reading this post, I'll definitely be sticking with the OEM version in the future. As Big Harold says, it isn't worth the risk, given the limited saving and potential risk. Did have a 2011MY 110 XS Station Wagon in Stornoway Grey until it was nicked.

Post #722782 11th Aug 2018 7:28am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 160

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Same for me, OEM only from now on and I'll be looking out for the internal pipe fitting.

It's worrying because I have their oil filter fitted too - I'm seriously considering buying an OEM one and changing that too Exclamation

On another note, I'd like to do a pump re-learn etc. anyway - as I don't have the money for a dedicated tool right now I was going to try FORScan with the appropriate adaptor. Before I do, is it possible to cause any issues by doing a re-learn or it going wrong?

Thanks Thumbs Up Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #722834 11th Aug 2018 12:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1761

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

I have a couple of ford branded fuel filters. Half the price of LR oem. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #722839 11th Aug 2018 12:52pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 160

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Update:

I think I'm going to have to change the VCV after all - at least I hope it's that!

Been away on holidays and the engine was getting progressively noisier, rattling worse than ever (especially when lifting the throttle to change gear) and overall seemed to be struggling (only 4 of us with about 100kg in the back and 500kg trailer) - couldn't make some hills in 6th on the motorway. Also noticing a very slight unstable tickover.

So going to purchase a Denso VCV - they are £65 on eBay cheapest I can find, does that sound about right?

Thanks! Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #725422 26th Aug 2018 10:49am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 160

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

Quick update...

Had a spare 30 mins the other day and having read about doing a Pump Learn and Pilot Correction Learn without changing the VCV giving results, decided I should go for it.

I was a bit nervous having never done it before, however it was a very interesting process. All sequences completed correctly in about 25 minutes and it has made a huge difference to the driveability and smoothness of the engine. No more rattling! Based on this I can only assume it was fuelling at slightly the wrong pressure giving the horrible 'I'm sure there's a loose item in the head' noise.

Whilst I can't say for sure I'm pretty convinced my fuel filter episode affected something in the system and made its previously learnt values go out of alignment. I can't also say the VCV isn't damaged, I may have just masked the problem for now, but I'll keep an eye on it and will get a VCV just in case!

On another note, I cleaned the MAF and MAP once I'd driven it for a few days after the relearn and I am convinced my leaking injector seals are responsible for the mess on my MAP sensor... Dread to think what the inlet manifold looks like!!! It was covered in the same gritty soot my worst injector was Big Cry


Click image to enlarge
 Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #730425 21st Sep 2018 9:27pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Post Reply
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2018 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis