↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Maintenance & Modifications > TD5 Raised Air Intakes 3", 4"?
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 2 12>
Print this entire topic · 
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1068

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green
TD5 Raised Air Intakes 3", 4"?

Rather than make another thread I've edited this one.

Been thinking a lot about air flow on my TD5 110 which is highly tuned (strong map, hybrid turbo etc...) Currently has a 70mm raised intake running to 76mm pipe direct to the airbox, removing the original intake. Also done the TD5 airbox mod for better flow + Pipercross filter.

Is a 76mm/3" raised air intake good enough or it is worth fabricating my own 4" raised air intake which would then run 4" pipe direct to the airbox, either through the lower wing intake, top wing intake or cutting away at the side of the bonnet to accept the larger bore.

Thoughts?


Quote:
EDIT Original Post -
Contemplating fitting twin Southdown snorkels to my TD5, question is, is it worth it?

They would both be properly plumbed in of course. The reason behind it is my TD5 is rather heavily tuned and the Southdown snorkels dont have the largest diameter pipes but the only ones IMO that look good with a cage. So worth fitting two?


Last edited by bankz5152 on 13th Feb 2018 5:48pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #686328 13th Feb 2018 2:08pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ibexman



Member Since: 13 Dec 2008
Location: kent
Posts: 2206

United Kingdom 

I expect it is strangled of air with a Southdown I would disconnect it on road fit 90/100 inlet

Post #686331 13th Feb 2018 2:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 8534

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

The Nakatanenga snorkels look better (by far) that almost any other IMO, are larger bore than any others I know, and are available in both cage and non-cage mountings. A single Nak snorkel would look better than twin Southdowns.

A poor photo of the non-cage version for the Puma, but similar to the cage version and the Td5.


Click image to enlarge

Post #686334 13th Feb 2018 2:45pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1068

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Sorry but thats ugly as sin and I expect an absolute fortune for what it is.

Theres very little point connecting/disconnecting for road/off road as it creates a weak point for water ingress.

Question is would two southdowns actually help the airflow by a decent amount or not worth fitting?


Last edited by bankz5152 on 13th Feb 2018 5:49pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #686339 13th Feb 2018 3:10pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
V8GPC



Member Since: 18 Jul 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 231

United Kingdom 

When designing duct work for Local Exhaust Ventilation systems, there are airflow losses due to friction of the inner surfaces, plus losses for each bend and connection. All added together means when specifying the air mover (fan) you need to select one that can shift the appropriate volume of air to maintain the required in-duct velocity (which based on duct diameter) gives volume airflow. m3/s

Therefore making the assumption that the engine is the air mover; and snorkels would inherently put extra load on the engine to achieve the same volume flow (as without a snorkel) then by fitting two would definitely split the load; and therefore have an easier route for the required volume of air to be moved. m3/s.

Having two comes down to esthetics, ducts ideally need to be smooth (corrigated adds friction) and juctions should never be 90 degrees or T shaped, they should be 45 and nicely curved, so worth considering how the two snorkels meet at the airbox.

In most engines the air losses probably don't cause too much restriction; but for a performance point of view you need to let it breath as easily as possible.

Post #686365 13th Feb 2018 5:48pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 8534

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

bankz5152 wrote:
Sorry but thats ugly as sin ...


And you think that this one isnt't ?!



Click image to enlarge


The fact that the Nak pipework appears to be about twice the CSA of the Southdown is probably a fair indication of the relative performance. The Nak also replaces (on the TDCi at least) the chronically restrictive underbonnet pipework whereas the Southdown does not.

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and one man's "ugly as sin" is another's "ruggedly handsome".

Post #686368 13th Feb 2018 6:02pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1068

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Very true. Though the Southdown (2.75" hence asking about two!) also replaces the LR pipe work. Either way I've removed the LR intake long ago and replaced with a 3" intake pipe that runs to the airbox. Much easier and better than trying to seal up all the LR nonsense!

Now wondering if its worth me fabricating a 3.5" or even 4" custom snorkel.

Post #686373 13th Feb 2018 6:15pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 3277

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue

I haven't got a snorkel but I replaced the airbox to wing pipework on my Td5 90 with 110mm ducting, taking the most direct route possible. It's big enough to fit your arm in.

At just over idle it will hold a towel against the wing so it shows how much air it pulls. I have also gutted my airbox to remove the water separator.

I had an aluminium adaptor machined to replace the standard plastic 90° bend going into the airbox.

It makes a decent difference to performance, and I'm sure it helps a lot with my VNT Thumbs Up 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Defender Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

Post #686388 13th Feb 2018 7:41pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1068

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Cheers grafty, pretty much did the exact same thing after seeing pics on here (yours I think) though only 76mm not 101. How did you route the larger bore pipe? I can't see how I could run thicker ABS/steering column appear to be in the way!

Problem is I would rather not use the wing top as the intake if possible but I think I could squeeze a 3.5" or 4" pipe there and then to a RAC snorkel or a custom one.

Or I could pretty easily fit two Southdowns (2.75") and a two runs of 3" pipe work which would run pretty close and direct to the air box.

Post #686397 13th Feb 2018 8:03pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
grafty99



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: North Devon
Posts: 3277

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Caledonian Blue

One lager pipe is better for flow than two smaller ones Thumbs Up

I'ts a VERY tight squeeze but it goes down and below the steering column, under the brake master cylinder then into the side vent. (pretty much the same route as factory)

I plan to fit a 200 tdi wing skin at some point and re route the air intake to the wing top so both snow vents are functional. currently the divers side on mine is there to vent heat (adaptor fitted for ducting - just not got round to re routing) 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon
1990 Vogue SE
Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200
Defender Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html
RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html
Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

Post #686401 13th Feb 2018 8:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1068

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Thats how I routed mine as well, though it was tight for a 3" under the steering column! I had to fit a hard plastic cover over the top of the pipe to stop the steering column from rubbing on the pipe and making an awful noise!

Post #686416 13th Feb 2018 8:46pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jst
Site Supporter


Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 4564

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

when i did the maths on mine a TGV needs just over 3.25" dia of pipework, a td5 i would of thought needs more air than a TGV with your setup, so 4" would be better yes. Cheers

James

www.4x4adventures.co.uk
110 XS Utility
90 tdci Softtop

Post #686436 13th Feb 2018 9:51pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 1068

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Correct.

I ran through a few bits with an engineering friend of mine. Current set up 3" snorkel + 3" intake is good enough but could be improved and far better over standard.

Twin Southdowns 2.5" snorkel with 3" intake pipe 32% better than my current set up
4" snorkel and 4" intake pipe 56% better than current

So naturally the 4" is the better choice here but as a 4" snorkel doesnt exist (as far as I can tell after 3 hours on Google/forums) I would have to make one and find a suitable route for the 4" pipe. It's also something I would want to do properly with a lot of thought and time which I can't do right now. However I will return to the idea! (mainly down to not wanting a wing top snorkel at this time)

So confident that twin Southdowns will be an improvement or at the very least the same as my current set up I've ordered some 3" intake and some couplers.

Main reason for the thread is I am currently fitting my roll cage and the outer wings are off, making for very easy routing of the intake pipes! Which would be almost impossible with the wings fitted.

Current plan is to run the intake pipes and secure in place but not plumb in until I have the snorkels in hand, then I can cut the wings as and when I need to.

Post #686446 13th Feb 2018 10:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Auckalani
Posts: 1297

New Zealand 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Cairns Blue

blackwolf wrote:
bankz5152 wrote:
Sorry but thats ugly as sin ...

One man's "ugly as sin" is another's "ruggedly handsome".


While I'm not so enamoured with the fish tank on top, I just ordered the Nakatenganagrbleblahb, Nakatengaglleblabagabba ... 'Nak' RAI for mine.

I'm aware we're not doing Fine Arts degrees but something about the ones that point forward in the airstream seem to me too aesthetically 'literal'. Turning them 180deg as I've seen a few examples of doesn't remedy that Shocked Laughing

The mantec one is ok, could live with that, but I think peak niceness is this original LR model:


Click image to enlarge


But as has been pointed out, unless you're modifying it, they both use the standard convoluted intake piping inside the wing. I much prefer the idea of a direct feed to the filter but after the gen LR ladder and SD cage I've decided that drilling in to my body is to be avoided from now on, so the Nak one fits the bill in that regard too.

Wondering if it clashes with the aerial though? Not a biggy, less work if it doesn't.

I considered using the fresh hole as a new place for a BBUS, nice and loud, but of course access once it's gone off is easy, but then I was wondering if there was enough current capacity to run two in parallel:

Thief finds out that the BBUS in standard location they tampered with was just a decoy, alarm goes off (!), thief finds loudest source behind old air intake, cuts that .... alarm still going off (!) - thoughts ? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

Post #686448 13th Feb 2018 10:16pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
jst
Site Supporter


Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 4564

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

this is to the vehicle in the picture? ie double cab?

i ran a 4" pipe through cab for rear snorkel on a truck cab, used Ali tubing and Silicon hoses all from ebay to make it up. had a foam filter on the top.

Allsiport do a very nice air filter large bore setup Cheers

James

www.4x4adventures.co.uk
110 XS Utility
90 tdci Softtop

Post #686450 13th Feb 2018 10:17pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 2 12>
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2018 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis