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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
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Posts: 7

United Kingdom 
No Glow Plug Supply Voltage
Hi

First post here ive just bought a 2.4 TDCI puma. After connecting a Lynx Evo a permanent DTC is showing for the glow plug circuit.

Outside temperature when doing the following checks was 1 degree and the engine was stone cold.

Checked the glow plug relay and have the following conditions -

12v supply from the brown wire feed direct from the bat + when ign off, 12v supply from the brown/orange (coil feed) when ign on, no volts at yellow/black (feed direct to the glow plugs) this is due to the relay coil not being energized. There's 12v at the ground side of the relay coil so supply traveling through relay coil and if i manually push the coil contacts together the glow pugs have voltage.

Checked the volts at the glow plug 6mm post on top of engine no volts there when ign switched on. I then connected a temp ground to the relay coil (green/blue wire that goes to the ECM for a switched ground) switched ign on and 10.8v at the glow plug 6mm post (on engine top).

My question is has any body had this problem and found a solution or is it the ECM that could be a fault.


Last edited by swifty on 5th Nov 2017 7:30pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #661980 5th Nov 2017 1:25pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
What does the DTC for the glow plug circuit actually say?
Post #661991 5th Nov 2017 3:02pm
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
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Last edited by dorsetsmith on 5th Nov 2017 7:31pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #662038 5th Nov 2017 7:27pm
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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
Location: here
Posts: 7

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Two DTC showing

P037D-29 Glow plug relay sense circuit, status PERMANENT
P1103-00 Mass air flow sensor in range but higher than expected. Reset DTC and this one gone for now.

Thanks for the wiring diagram, its the same one i have. Forgot to mention in the first thread four new Bosch glow plugs fitted.
Post #662040 5th Nov 2017 7:28pm
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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
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Been thinking about this problem one possibility is the ground from the ECM to the glow plug relay is not been switched on. I believe the ECM needs the CHT sensor to say the temperature is below a certain degree set point for the ground to be switched on. Is there a document on the net that has the expected resistance readings for the sensors for the puma.

Many years ago I had a manual for fault finding on what was at that time the up to date fuel injection systems, it went into great detail on fault finding with sensor values as per ambient temperature etc so a reference book like this on the puma would be very helpful.
Post #662149 6th Nov 2017 8:36am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

Glow plug relay sense circuit see below


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(Glow plug relay sense circuit, status PERMANENT) check wiring for shorts if your DTC showing

P037D-29 Glow plug relay sense circuit, status PERMANENT but not supply to glow plugs Exclamation
Post #662176 6th Nov 2017 11:14am
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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
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Posts: 7

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If anybody requires the CHT resistance values are as follows

Coolant Temperature Sensor Response
Temperature (Degrees Celsius) Resistance (Kohms) Voltage (Volts)
-40 925 4.54
-30 496 4.46
-20 277 4.34
-10 160 4.15
0 96 3.88
10 59 3.52
20 37 3.09
30 24 2.62
40 16 2.15
50 11 1.72
60 7.5 1.34
70 5.6 1.04
80 3.8 0.79
90 2.9 0.64
100 2.08 0.49
110 1.56 0.38
120 1.19 0.29
130 0.918 0.22
140 0.673 0.17
150 0.563 0.14
Post #662375 7th Nov 2017 11:13am
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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
Location: here
Posts: 7

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Problem sorted, not really sure what it was removed the centre plug on the ecm to check continuity of the green/blue wire C1 from the glow plug relay coil circuit which was ok, replaced plug then pulled fuse 39 which had slight corrosion cleaned and checked for voltage at the glow plug post had 10.8v so all fixed.

The permanent glow plug DTC is still logged and won't clear, I've read the permanent DTC won't clear until 3 clear engine cycles have been completed is this correct?
Post #663555 11th Nov 2017 8:34pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Quote:
The permanent glow plug DTC is still logged and won't clear, I've read the permanent DTC won't clear until 3 clear engine cycles have been completed is this correct?


Sounds about right. Start the car, run it for a minute or two and switch off again 3 or 4 times.
Post #663675 12th Nov 2017 11:51am
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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
Location: here
Posts: 7

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Re posting this problem as it come back again.

Checked the following points first, all four glow plugs working which they should be as there new. No volts at the glow plug post which is on top of engine right hand side.
DTC
P037D-29 Glow plug relay sense circuit, status PERMANENT

Removed the ECM from bulk head to check relay circuit between glow plug relay and ECM- circuit ok.This circuit is the ground for the relay coil and is switched on by the ECM conditions being correct which they were it was 1 degree and the cylinder head/block read 4.5 degrees with a temp ir meter.

I did check the supply volts to the glow plug relay both the coil and load supply which both are ok.
Then moved my attention to the CHT at 4.5 degrees. Supply volts 4.95v, resistance 82 omhs and 3.95v on the return circuit which falls about right with the information listed in the workshop manual for the temperature at the time.

As a temporary fix I've wired a push button switch to earth the glow plug relay coil basically doing what the ECM does when the condition are correct for the glow plugs to be used in a cold start situation, chose a push button to prevent the glow plugs being switched on by mistake also wired a digital volts display into the glow plug supply circuit so that I can easily monitor the circuit.

Any body experienced a similar problem. I am now thinking that there may be a problem with the ECM or any suggestions guys.
Post #665569 19th Nov 2017 6:57pm
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swifty



Member Since: 05 Nov 2017
Location: here
Posts: 7

United Kingdom 
This morning went out to start the the landy in 4 degree temp and there was 10.8v at the glow plugs which is strange as when I left it yesterday there was no voltage at the glow plugs, engine started and drove for a good twenty minutes during which time the glow plug supply stayed on this I knew from the voltage gauge wired in yesterday. Engine up to temperature, switched the engine off the glow plug supply stayed on for about five seconds then the relay dropped out.

Switched the ignition back on and no supply to the glow plugs,so it looks like the circuit fault is that the glow plug supply is staying on causing the ECM to disconnect the glow plug relay coil earth the next time the ign switch is turned on. In my reckoning there's possibly a fault with the CHT, if id had my meter I could of checked the CHT output resistance and voltage along with the ir temp gauge to see if the fault was with the CHT.

Can the ECM disconnect a faulty circuit and log it as so then if the ECM is disconnected from the vehicle then reconnected the fault is reset. The reason I ask this is that all that I done yesterday apart from check wiring etc was disconnect the ECM harness.
Post #665676 20th Nov 2017 8:35am
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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554


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Post #665696 20th Nov 2017 10:14am
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Willie123



Member Since: 26 Nov 2023
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Barolo Black
First post here so apologies if I miss any group rules.

I've got a 2009 2.4tdci and I seem to be having a similar issue to yourself. I'll attach the codes below.

I've changed the maf sensor to no avail, I've also bought a new maf sensor plug, as there's a few bare conductors leading into the OEM plug so not sure if they're shorting and getting a high voltage over them.

I've also bought a new glow plug relay and new glow plugs themselves. I checked what voltage I'm getting at the plugs and it was only 8 V, so I'm not sure if that's indicative of an issue with the wiring to the plugs themselves. In my opinion the glow plugs don't seem to be working at all, it's relatively cold at the moment and there seems to be a hell of a lot of white smoke on start up. I also broke down on the m61 the other day and got trailered home and then it was completely fine.

Did you manage to get your issues fixed?

P037D-29 (GLOW PLUG RELAY SENSE CIRCUIT - SIGNAL INVALID)
P1103-00 (MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR IN RANGE BUT HIGHER THAN EXPECTED - NO SUBTYPE INFORMATION)
P0380-11 (GLOW PLUG/HEATER CIRCUIT A - CIRCUIT SHORT TO GROUND)

Best wishes

Will
Post #1016434 26th Nov 2023 5:31pm
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