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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 

Click image to enlarge
 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #537049 2nd Jun 2016 9:23pm
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Thread revival... I still have trouble understanding how this all works. Yesterday when I was at my tire center for installing the winter wheels, the truck was on the hydraulic lift. The hydro lift used supports the truck on 4 chassis blocks, so all four wheels where dangling freely in the air. I had pulled up the handbrake after driving onto the lift, but when I tried to turn the wheels by hand, they all 4 could be turned freely without any resistance. Handbrake was pulled up to where it normally bites.
When back from the tire center, I tried the handbrake again on a sloping road, and with 4 clicks it quickly came to a full stop from slow speed, and the handbrake would hold the truck perfectly in that spot.
So how does this work exactly, why could I turn the wheels by hand when up in the air?
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #660003 28th Oct 2017 8:38am
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 556

Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue
Hand brake is working on rear prop shaft. So all wheels of the ground, you can freely turn any of the. When turning one rear Wheel, the other rear Wheel will turn the same speed but in opposite direction, and rear prop shaft will not turn, because of the hand brake applied. If you held one rear wheel, the other will not turn also.
In "more standard" cars, the hand break works on both rear wheels, not on prop shaft (on some old Citroen cars on front wheels). "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile
Post #660013 28th Oct 2017 9:32am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
Post #660036 28th Oct 2017 12:27pm
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DieselBeast



Member Since: 27 Sep 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 33

1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi PU Java Black
The differential in the rear (And front) axle will allow one wheel to turn one way and the opposite wheel on that axle the opposite way. It's all to do with science of the diff. Planets, suns and planet carriers... etc.

If you tried to turn both wheels the same way (With a friend on the other wheel) Then the drive would transfer to the prop and then the handbrake would stop the prop from turning.
Post #660313 29th Oct 2017 5:11pm
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Justtellme



Member Since: 23 Nov 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 305

Canada 2003 Defender 110 Td5 SW Oslo Blue
blackwolf wrote:
..........Incidentally, why did LR opt for a transmission brake back in 1947? It was so the handbrake would still work effectively (and on all four wheels) even when the (foot) brakes were full of mud/water etc. A sound design decision that has endured to this day.


Isnt it because Land Rover copied the GPW/MB design so faithfully?....LOL
Yes...I have a 1942 GPW.....
Post #660325 29th Oct 2017 6:13pm
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L90 PGC



Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Gloucester
Posts: 2

England 2006 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Barolo Black
X-brake
2006 Defender 90Td5 XS:

Frequently tow a horse in a trailer and at 500kgs the standard handbrake was not holding. Installed the X-brake which holds on a very steep gradient, but makes a high-pitched chattering noise. Slight application of the handbrake and serene quiet returns (for a Defender!). Talked to my MoT 4x4 garage and they say the disk brake shoes are chattering as they are loose in their holders. Is this BS or possible? Could superglue or silicone be applied to stop the chattering? Appreciate any thoughts. Embarassed
Post #687610 19th Feb 2018 4:25pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Sounds entirely feasible. On normal disc brake setups there can be anti rattle clips, springs on the retaining pins, or rubber buffer pads to go on each end of the calipers.

A dab or two of copperslip on the rear faces of the pads may also help. Glue or silicone has no place in a solution though.

I'd actually recommend this:


Click image to enlarge


i don't know the design of the x eng kit - maybe there is something wrong, damaged or missing with your setup. Are the pads fitted correctly or excessively worn?

I'd check with x eng and see if they are aware of any issues and have a fix.
Post #687630 19th Feb 2018 5:40pm
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L90 PGC



Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Gloucester
Posts: 2

England 2006 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Barolo Black
disc brake
Many thanks Supacat, not a fan of silicone and will try your recommendation
Post #687763 20th Feb 2018 8:40am
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Scott R



Member Since: 21 Jan 2016
Location: Northampton
Posts: 25

England 1985 Defender 90 Other HT Nato Green
To be honest the x-brake is rubbish for road vehicles, constantly needing adjustment and pads wear very quickly. They are really only any good for an off road vehicle in my opinion.
If they aren’t already the pads need gluing in to stop to stop them rubbing on the disc, that stops them chattering and wearing out prematurely. Having them too tightly adjusted also wears the pads out quicker than normal.
Properly cleaned and adjusted the standard drum set up is very effective and I’ve not had any issue with them. It’s only when playing in deep sloppy mud and water that they become useless.
Post #687879 20th Feb 2018 6:38pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1829

^^^^ just to add an opposite perspective. I got my car about 17 years ago. Not long after, I started to get fed up with the handbrake catching as the car coasted to a stop at traffic lights or junctions. Tried adjusting it for a while but soon decided to fit an X-eng brake. I don't know when they came onto the market, and my dates might be a bit hazy, but my guess is that it must be comfortably over 10 years since I fitted it - and have never touched it since - it just works. It has needed adjusting for a while, and I did that about a month ago using the adjustment on the cable. Now it holds on just 4 or 5 clicks of the lever as opposed to needing all the travel. But even then, once on, it held fine. So that'll be 10+ MOTs it's got through for next to no maintenance.

Definitely not saying you're wrong - we'll all have different experiences with our LRs - but for me it's been a great bit of kit. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #687896 20th Feb 2018 7:40pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
most of the problem with the standard handbrake happens when someone has belted the sides of the drum with a hammer to get it off or the shoes have been left for years so the lining falls off. So the linings catch or and the drum goes egg shaped. Or it all seizes up internally, so it either doesn't release or doesn't apply properly.

Thing is it gets like that, then someone swaps it all for some fancy after market disc conversion, only to declare that it's so much better. The same experience would have likely been true from just replacing the standard parts with new.

Looked after and well maintained the standard one is pretty damn good, the initial lurch as it takes up the slack in the shoes is always disconcerting though.
Post #687941 20th Feb 2018 10:42pm
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X4SKP



Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2284

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Puma Handbrake Adjustment
Hello All

I decided to add to this existing thread rather than 'separate out' with my question.

Can someone confirm the procedure to correctly adjust the Handbrake on a Puma... Question

The reason for asking is that my 90 currently works OK at 3 clicks of the handbrake lever,
but it can go to 4 with not much more effort, so I want to make the Handbrake activate
earlier... 2-3 clicks.

The Haynes Manual (I know... Shocked ) for the Puma (2007-2016) is a touch ambiguous
in the description given and terminology used.

It would be good to hear the right procedure to do this.

Inside the Cabin there appears No adjustment at this end of the Handbrake Cable...

Click image to enlarge


Underneath the vehicle the Handbrake Cable appears to have adjustment with a
21mm Nut (left) and 16mm Nut (right)

Click image to enlarge


I'm currently set up, with all four wheels off the ground, so your help would be welcome... Thumbs Up

Thanks SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html
Post #1010036 4th Oct 2023 2:49pm
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piechipsandpeas



Member Since: 12 May 2021
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Posts: 167

Australia 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Indus Silver
Hi Skip

The play in the handbrake cable (and the number of clicks to engagement) is adjusted by the 2 nuts in your lower photo.

However, before adjusting the cable on the rear of the seat box make sure you have adjusted the shoes in the drum using the adjuster bolt on the lower front of the drum (17mm socket). With handbrake off, tighten to 25Nm, then back off 1.5 turns and check drum rotates by hand.

Once that is done adjust the play in the cable by turning the larger nut in your lower photo whilst holding the smaller one steady.
Post #1010094 5th Oct 2023 3:09am
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X4SKP



Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2284

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Hello piechipsandpeas

Thank you... Why couldn't Haynes say that... Exclamation

I got there after concluding it must be as you described.

The Handbrake Cable adjustment via the 21 and 16mm Nuts is quite tricky to accomplish
with thoughts ranging from 'you need to be a contortionist for this one' and I wonder if my
wife could be persuaded to tackle this, (with slimmer arms).

Eventually I found holding the 21mm Nut static and winding 'out' (back) the 16mm Nut
over the top of the Gearbox / Transfer box I got to 2 clicks of the Handbrake Lever with
just a little movement towards 3 clicks. Overall it now feels a more positive engagement
with that 'perceived' extra security if I'm parked on a slope.

I have (being old school) always left a parked vehicle in gear and if necessary with the front
wheels turned in towards the curb... but then you read about Defenders occasionally getting
stuck in 1st when parked... don't you love them... Thumbs Up

Anyway thanks again for your help.

Drum / Shoe adjustment Nut Tightened to 25NM (Clockwise) and then backed off 540 degrees
(1 1/2 turns) brought me back to almost exactly the same spot... overall result for me was this
nut being tightened by 30 degrees.


Click image to enlarge
 SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html
Post #1010117 5th Oct 2023 8:51am
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