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Keith5



Member Since: 27 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black
Driving on sand

I've been offered the opportunity to get off road while doing some of the NC500 in a couple of weeks time. The opportunity is to get access to drive across some beaches an dunes to camp.

I've done some background reading on driving in sand and understand that locking the cenre diff and driving to maintain momentum are key things, however there seems to be no clear view on changing tyre pressures for this.

So my question is should I look to drop tyre pressures before driving on to the beach and if so to what pressure?

Thanks

Keith Keith

Post #640246 28th Jul 2017 9:21am
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Devon-Rover



Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 379

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green

Hi

As sand comes in "none two varieties the same" To keep it simple, then it makes tyre pressures a hard one to exactly tell you that magical pressure to run at.

Generally the softer the sand the lower the tyre pressure to provide flotation. So take a walk and have a look firm sand will probably warrant no pressure reduction but should it become softer and more fine so walking becomes harder then you will need to think about maybe a reduction 1/4 to 1/2 to help stay on top. Although for example a short 20 meter slope of fine sand to escape off the beach you'll get away with just keeping a bit of speed up without needing to change pressure.

Beaches have this wonderful combination of sand and water and this can catch you out in form of 'quicksand'. Water saturated sand has no stability and you will sink in an instant so should the sand change infront of you and you see water laying or it is dark then have a look a dam good poke about to see.

ohh and have a decent compressor to reinflate at the other end usually helps. Wink

Post #640267 28th Jul 2017 11:05am
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Naks



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Stellenbosch, Republic of the Western Cape
Posts: 1706

South Africa 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

On sand:

1. Drop tyre pressures to 1.0 bar, or 0.8 for really soft sand
2. Lock CDL
3. Keep momemtum up


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ5..._gC3rkKfhk --

2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear



Puma Workshop Manual: http://1drv.ms/1nNpJeM
D4 Workshop Manual: http://bit.ly/22l8YHh
RRS Workshop Manual: http://bit.ly/2iH7jgG

Post #640280 28th Jul 2017 11:36am
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Keith5



Member Since: 27 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

Thanks for the feedback - that's pretty much what I've read elsewhere but presented more concisely.

It's a regularly driven track by the staff that work there so I'm expecting to get some guidance from them before I arrive. I believe that it runs above the high tide line so hopefully quick sand shouldn't be a problem, I'll make sure I find out from the local knowledge.

In terms of compressors I've had a look at portable kits (I'm not going to mount something permanent). Ideally I would get something like: https://www.flatdoguk.com/showdetails.asp?id=1882 if I can get it delivered in time.

Does anyone have experience of kit like: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ring-RAC900-Infla...compressor

Thanks

Keith Keith

Post #640282 28th Jul 2017 11:41am
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bankz5152



Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 549

2004 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Epsom Green

Never lift, flat out on hill climbs, left foot braking on declines. Drop tyres a bit, if youve mud tyres drop em a lil more. Careful though dont want the tyre coming off the rim!

Post #640283 28th Jul 2017 11:42am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 7295

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

You will not find a better portable compressor that this ARB Twin unit, and although it is expensive (like all good tools) this is actually a blisteringly good price from LRS.

If it is a track you are very unlikely to have any problems. If you find yourself on the beach, or in the middle of the desert, you need to be more careful.

My advice re (desert or beach) sand and mud tyres would be to stay off it if you have mud tyres. Mud tyres are designed to do exactly what you don't want to happen on sand, ie cut through the surface.

The only other advice I would give (since the advice above is all spot on) is keep out of places which are submerged if the tide comes in, carry several shovels and sand ladders, and make sure that there is another vehicle and a long tow rope with you. In the UK, where help is never far away and sitautions are unlikely to be life-threatening, the last two of these can probably be largely ignored, but not the first unless you want to end up featuring in the tabloid press.

Post #640301 28th Jul 2017 12:46pm
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leeds
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Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 7295

United Kingdom 

Whilst driving on a beach can be fun there are many potential dangers.

It is best not to drive actually in the sea. On reason is salt corrosion the other is that you can not see sudden changes of slope in the sand. Do not assume that the beach has a nice steady gradient on it. The sea water could hide a sudden drop off in the sand which could result in a roll over into deep water.

Do not be tempted to just race down the beach on that nice 'level' sand without prior inspection. A stream could be running into the sea and cut a ditch in the sand.

Know when high tide is, how quickly the tide comes in, faster on a shallow gentle beach.

Look for your escape route off the beach as you drive along it.

If you are going to be above normal high tide mark (normally evident by line of detritus) you should be fine.

Wash the underside of your Defender when you get back.


Brendan http://www.4x4overlander.com
Brendan's phone numbers 07929 604668/01422 243966 up to about 9pm
email address brendan@4x4overlander.com

Post #640535 29th Jul 2017 4:07pm
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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Brizzle
Posts: 1927

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

After driving a heavy 3T D3 in Morocco a few years back, I can confirm that when driving on sand you need to adhere to the 3M principles.

Momentum

Momentum

And strangely enough

Momentum


Also no sharp turns, you'll dig a tyre in and scrub speed off. Lower tyre pressures help but ensure you have means of inflating again as soon as you leave the sand. I'm sure Mo or someone will link to a video of my stricken D3 in sand 110 USW
Volvo V60 R Design.

Polaris RZR 900XP

Post #642863 9th Aug 2017 10:39pm
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4wheeler



Member Since: 13 Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 82

Australia 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Chawton White

While others experience may be different, I have always run mud tyres on my various 4x4 vehicles and never had any trouble on sand which includes beach sand to driving in the Simpson Desert and crossing the many dunes there. Obviously really dry and fine sand would be more of an issue with muddies but I have only been stuck once on a beach and that was because I was forced to drive low down on soft sand because every one else had bogged down. Recovering a vehicle with water lapping at the tyres is no fun.

As others have said tyre pressure and momentum are key and good recovery gear such as MaxTrax which do a fantastic job of getting vehicles out of sand is a must. I don't fiddle around regarding pressures. I go straight to 18 PSI to start and in soft sand lower the pressure further if there are no rocks or stakes likely to damage the tyre. I turn and brake gently so as not to bog down or run the tyre off the rim or force sand into the bead causing tyre deflation. If I feel that the vehicle is labouring then I drop the pressures. Anyway, if there is no water to worry about, getting bogged is half the fun (although not in 35+ Celsius). Razz


Click image to enlarge


Here is my old Hilux scrambling up "Big Red" in the Simpson Desert on full mud tyres running 12 PSI to get over the big dune. - Sorry for the Toyota photo!


Last edited by 4wheeler on 11th Aug 2017 10:05am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #643105 11th Aug 2017 7:00am
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RoddyK05



Member Since: 08 Apr 2015
Location: Inverclyde
Posts: 409

Scotland 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Yellow

The tone of your initial post suggests it is an organised thing? If so, you are very unlikely to be guided into areas where you will require your own sand ladders etc. Listen to the advice given from your party leader and see what others do too. If you are in a group there is no point in you all having an expensive compressor with you - one or two in the bunch should suffice. Yes, definitely take a wee shovel but I wouldn't go loading up with expedition gear for a quick blast across some sand to a camp site. Remember the most important thing - your camera - we love pictures here on def2.

Post #643114 11th Aug 2017 7:52am
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Keith5



Member Since: 27 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

Trip went well, covered 230 miles of the NC500 from Durness down the west coast then a detour on to Skye before getting the ferry to Mallaig and home.

Trip out across the dunes went well, I bought a bushranger compressor but based on the hard packed sand I didn't need it in the end.

Photos below as requested:


Click image to enlarge



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Balnakeil Beach


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Click image to enlarge
 Keith

Post #643411 12th Aug 2017 11:26am
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RoddyK05



Member Since: 08 Apr 2015
Location: Inverclyde
Posts: 409

Scotland 2004 Defender 90 Td5 SW Yellow

Looks like you had a greaWt time Keith. The NC500 is on my 'to do' list, just not sure when. The wife doesn't fancy camping and my pal wants to cycle it, so my choices are booking accommodation and doing it with the wife or getting a very sore erchie and cycling it??
Are those old Vango force10 tents?

Post #643416 12th Aug 2017 11:41am
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Keith5



Member Since: 27 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 99

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

They are Force 10s, still in production. We borrowed a couple from the Scouts as a test run to decide if we wanted to invest the money in some for ourselves.

The answer (from both the wife and my kids) was yes. Just need to save some pennies now. Keith

Post #643420 12th Aug 2017 11:46am
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