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Otis90



Member Since: 28 Jan 2017
Location: suffolk
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green
Wiper Relay
Forgive as new to forum, owned several Defenders but decided to start offering my help. My puma intermittent stopped working and the parking was hit and miss. Read through the various forums and it seemed to be the motor on self diagnosis. I read about the relay and felt it 'click' so thought this was not likely to be the problem. In the end I thought for £6 try a new relay and just plugged it in and all is fine! So this might not solve everyone's problem but worth a try before the expense and time of removing the whole dash, especially if you are not experienced at motor repair skills.
Post #596925 28th Jan 2017 9:14am
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Wiper fault that unless I'm mistaken is not quite like the others already discussed..

Intermittent fault that happens only when it's raining very hard ( Rolling Eyes ).

Anyway, so the wipers wont find home on the downwards stroke, they will instead continue so far as the left wiper sits on the window seal. They do however work fully in every other regard in all modes.

They will even 'droop' on one wipe then land correctly on the next and so on.

Happens both when running and on the final stroke after having been switched off - i.e. there is no 'it stops right there' issue.

I have swapped out the relay to the Bosch programmable delay type and the fault continues.

As per every other thread I'm going to have a play with the park switch (520160/LR057182) - just wondering if anyone else has any tips regarding this one?

Getting close to my ideal vehicle, so now its time for stuff like this Thumbs Up Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #598472 2nd Feb 2017 5:57am
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Martin
Site Admin


Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6460

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
Sounds like a mechanical rather than electrical issue. The park switch only comes into operation to park the wipers, so as it is happening during wiping and at the end, it cannot be the switch allowing the wipers to overshoot.

Probably worn wheelbox/boxes and/or rack.

Can you move/rotate the wipers by hand at all, any slack in them.

I had this on my soft top and replaced the wheelboxes and rack last year. They were 28 years old thought not 8 Shocked  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #598475 2nd Feb 2017 7:25am
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
I suspect I can rotate them, although I'm not really keen to try Wink

I do wonder how they go to far some of the time though, not saying it's impossible - guess it will be interesting to learn what's going on. Once day soon I'll open it up and have a look.

Dang, should have done it with the windshield out earlier today! (hit a pheasant at 100kph last week..) Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #598479 2nd Feb 2017 7:46am
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Martin
Site Admin


Member Since: 02 Apr 2007
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 6460

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Montalcino Red
Just give the wiper arms a tickle (rotate them) and see if there is backlash Wink  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW
Post #598482 2nd Feb 2017 8:04am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
As Martin says this is almost certainly wear in in either the wheelboxes or in the crank of the motor, or both.

If the two wiper arms can "wiggle" independently of each other, of if one "wiggles" more than the other, it suggests one or both wheelboxes. If the two wipers seem fairly well linked but both "wiggle" when parked it suggests wear in the cranked drive in the motor.

By "wiggle" I mean manipulated by hand with the blade lifted of the glass.

The good news is that the gear, crank, drive cable, and wheelboxes are all reasonably inexpensive, though they are a bit of a faff to fit on a Puma.

Incidentally cheap quality (eg Halfords) wiper blades can cause a similar effect since they tend to be loose on the arms and can skew relative to each other, creating an effect similar to one travelling further at end-stroke than the other. the blades that Halfords sells for Defenders are also longer than the original and will almost certainly hit the screen seal at some point. I have a pair at the moment and I am really not too impressed (but in all honesty few Halfords products impress me except for the pro range of tools, which are surprisingly acceptable. But that is another story and irrelevant to this thread).
Post #598494 2nd Feb 2017 8:45am
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1726

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
AM

Mine did this - the circlip on the crank had come off allowing the bush to move and hence alter the arc of the wipers, as it was stripped out anyway I replaced all of the bits and switch for good order, re greased the mechanism and turned the gears 180 degrees at the spindles.

Good luck

Keith
Post #599900 7th Feb 2017 6:34pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Thanks for the tips from someone who has had similar!

I'm really keen to only open up the dash once - done it before, and it's a right PITA - any chance you could give me a run down on what parts I should expect to need to swap out?


Click image to enlarge


This diagram from: https://www.landroverworkshop.com/diagrams...sher_44954

So far I've only ordered DLE000010 'Wiper rack' but the diagram makes it hard to determine what it mates with what and how, so aside from ordering it all ($) I'm a bit clueless as to what would be the wise selection.

Any advice greatly appreciated Thumbs Up Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #599915 7th Feb 2017 7:40pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Also, to answer your questions:

- The slop (backlash) on the wiper arms is about the angle it droops (occasionally).

- They appear well synced with each other however - i.e. not much slop between arms - it's more slop between the arms (as a 'unit') and the driving mechanism(s).

Forgive my ignorance as I am yet to open it up but does this mean the rack is likely ok? Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #599930 7th Feb 2017 8:25pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1726

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
It was the assembly number 4 that fell apart - no parts were needed but I bought item 4 plus a park switch as they seem to fail and replaced them / greased them as required. There was another member on here who had the same and using Blackwolfs excellent write up, it wasn't hard or take more than a couple of hours.

Keith

Edit:

the circlip came off the end of the crank pin, the bush then moves out of the hole in the arm, allowing the crank pin to run eccentrically in the hole causing all sorts of slop and movement - all item 4
Post #599932 7th Feb 2017 8:34pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Thanks ickle, really helpful Thumbs Up

Goes without saying blackwolf has been a great help here and elsewhere also Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Gotta love this forum! Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #599935 7th Feb 2017 8:42pm
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agentmulder



Member Since: 16 Apr 2016
Location: Outer Space
Posts: 1324

Kuwait 
Finally got around to this today..

I'm about 90% sure it was the crank arm connection to the main gear, all parts appear to be there, but the arm was loose compared the replacement. I'd clean it and see, but too busy at the moment.

The old rack appeared fine but I replaced it anyway as the work involved in getting in there is not worth saving the $$ not using what I've already bought - so I guess I have a spare - I see how you can flip them over anyway so I effectively have 4 working units now ha ha Shocked

If you are thinking about doing this it's pretty easy, but you do have to be 'defender minded' and yeah about 2hrs is accurate.

As an aside it's a lot quieter now too, funny what you don't notice until it's gone. Thumbs Up Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants...
Post #619360 25th Apr 2017 8:27am
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Proker911



Member Since: 06 Dec 2011
Location: SW France
Posts: 1

France 
Thank you Blackwolf tips for LHD Puma
Had to thank Blackwolf - without his post and guide I would not have had the confidence to take out the dash.
I had to replace my entire wiper mechanism because that tiny rubber grommet was missing that stops water going down the wipoer shaft - my entire mechanism was full of rust and grit and the drive gear teeth had worn out
SO EVERYONE Check you have this grommet see pic.

For any LHD puma folks you can remove the entire mechanism just by pulling the dash back as suggested. mechanism is identical for both LHD and RHD same park etc.
Couple of tips
glue the rubber pad behind the motor onto the bulkhead with contact adhesive
partially screw in the far side (left) bolt through the motor U clamp makes putting the motor back MUCH easier
You can not remove the RH screen blower duct unless the motor is loose so put that back before you tighten the motor
Here is a list of parts that were removed to gain access if its not listed it stayed in situ.
Entire Center panel incl Radio
Grab handle
Top of speedo pod
small strip of facia below speedo pod
Speedo pod
Upper and lower trim on steering column
RH side tweeter (tie a bit of string to the wire as its very short and keep it threaded through the hole
All screws around the dash but not the ones directly in front of the gear shifts.

Good luck
Post #622851 9th May 2017 11:12am
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