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Sammyboy



Member Since: 28 Feb 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 121

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Sumatra Black
2013 110 Utility Station Wagon XS
Currently looking at a good example of one of these for sale at a 4x4 dealer.

Can anyone explain why some of these attract VAT and some don't? (the one I'm looking at doesn't)

Also has anyone got any experience of driving one particularly regarding any additional road noise due to the large mostly un-soundproofed loadspace.

An excellent review in the current Spring 2017 LRO magazine is very helpful........any comments are most welcome.
Post #620402 29th Apr 2017 5:02pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Commercial vehicles are generally sold to businesses (as USW is basically a crew van), as such they are generally advertised with the ex-vat price. As private cars (like a CSW) are mainly aimed at private individuals, by law a retailer has to advertise them including VAT.

VAT registered businesses are able to reclaim the VAT on the vehicles they buy for their business, however when they sell that vehicle on they have to charge VAT on the second hand value. And issue an invoice for it, if the buyer is VAT registered they can reclaim that VAT. However as a private buyer you can't reclaim the VAT nor do you have to add it to the sale of the car.

Used car dealers don't charge VAT on the vehicle per se, they pay VAT based on the profit they make. So if they buy a car from a private individual for £18k then sell it for £20k they pay £400 VAT. (20% of 2000). However if they buy from a VAT registered company they have to charge the VAT, Then show it on the invoice. Everyone pays that vat, it's just that vat registered buyers can claim it back.

Basically they all attract VAT, but if a private buyer has bought one the VAT won't have been reclaimed. It's just that dealers choose to advertise them at the Ex-vat price because they can and it looks more appealing to business buyers.

It just depends on who the last owner was and if the dealer chooses to advertise it as VAT inclusive.
Post #620410 29th Apr 2017 5:48pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
Quote:
Also has anyone got any experience of driving one particularly regarding any additional road noise due to the large mostly un-soundproofed loadspace.


It's only really the side panels that are any different to a CSW. They still have the headlining carpets and door cards etc that a CSW has. You can buy carpet covered panels to stick to the bare metal bits in the back. Noise wise they're little different to a CSW apart from the fact you don't have the draughty rattling windows in the back! In some ways they're better! Laughing

Other than that it's basically the same as an ordinary defender noise, it's nothing like as bad as the totally uninsulated 110 3 door vans.
Post #620411 29th Apr 2017 5:55pm
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AndyS



Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Sumatra Black
Generally speaking the first non-business buyer pays the VAT. If they're advertised as +VAT then it hasn't been bought by a non-business buyer yet. If they're inclusive of VAT then it has been bought by a non-business buyer and whoever it was has paid the VAT on the car.

I say generally speaking because everyone who buys it pays VAT but VAT registered business buyers get to claim it back in their next VAT return. Until someone pays the VAT and doesn't claim it back (usually the first non-business user or the first business user who isn't VAT registered) VAT is payable. But it's much of a muchness, the vehicle is worth whatever it's worth, the price you actually pay will be similar if it's inclusive of VAT or not.
Post #620419 29th Apr 2017 6:31pm
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Paulv8



Member Since: 09 Jun 2013
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 616

1989 Defender 90 V8 Petrol CSW Alpine White
My 2013. Usw xs had no carpets. It was a bit noisy but not too bad. I sound proofed it and fitted carpets for about 300 notes. Now it's fine. The biggest thing about a usw is the ride.... It's a bit harsh! V8 90...WIP
Post #620420 29th Apr 2017 6:44pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
I think the ride depends on if you have the heavy duty suspension fitted, it's not standard, but if you have it optioned and run lightly loaded it bounces around like hell at the back.

Dropping the tyre pressures slightly when you're lightly loaded also make a big difference.
Post #620912 1st May 2017 9:46pm
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Sammyboy



Member Since: 28 Feb 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 121

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Sumatra Black
Would towing a caravan with a 100kg nose weight make much difference to the stability of the rear end? Discovery 4 HSE
Defender 2.2 110 USW XS
Ford Kuga AWD
Discovery 3
Range Rover P38
Discovery - 300 TDI
Discovery - 200TDI
Post #621734 4th May 2017 7:45pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
It wont negatively effect it no. But it would probably improve the ride if anything.

I think they're rated to about 250kg downward load on the tow hitch.
Post #621737 4th May 2017 7:50pm
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Sammyboy



Member Since: 28 Feb 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 121

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Sumatra Black
I'm happy that the towball will take the 100kg but I was wondering whether the weight of the caravan plus tool box, personal luggage and dog in rear would be sufficient to calm down the harshness of the rear heavy duty suspension on the USW. Alternatively with such light loads would it be better to change rear springs for standard 110 CSW springs. Not intending using the USW for work just as a family vehicle. Discovery 4 HSE
Defender 2.2 110 USW XS
Ford Kuga AWD
Discovery 3
Range Rover P38
Discovery - 300 TDI
Discovery - 200TDI
Post #621751 4th May 2017 8:24pm
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zsd-puma



Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black
As i said a few posts back the USW doesn't come with heavy duty suspension as standard, although it could be specified on any 110 as an option.

"The car" is rated to a 250kg downward load on the tow hitch. 100kg from a caravan will barely be noticable, these things are built to drag cattle trailers and horse boxes around. Wink

If anything they ride better when fully loaded.
Post #621762 4th May 2017 8:38pm
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