 | Home > Technical > Rear Drive shaft / flange wear. A warranty story |
 
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 906   
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I did ponder as where to put this but I feel tech section is most visible to all.
Back in October I reported to a main dealer that I had a couple minor issues that I felt needed sorting. Amongst those was the level of driveline backlash, It was reported back to me as normal. After a 1000 miles I was to report back for an inspection about the oil leak (the other item) which they without problem granted needed to be sorted. At this time I raised the backlash issue again and this time decided to record my findings and IMHO the root cause. You can see this in my youtube video. below VVVVVV Defender Drive Flange Wear After the inspection and conformation that the leak was to be fixed I was told that in regard to the wear then "It isn't enough to be covered and land rover won't honor the cost of the warranty". 
I know as a subjective thing perceptions differ but looking at the video above would you think that is acceptable and within 'tolerances'? I understand the workshop manager has to deal with spurious and actual non problems and this all adds to the keeping the costs down, but to tell me that wear is nothing I find farcical. Me knowing what I know and info also found on THIS TOPIC that A) rover and the older Salisbury axles suffer from shaft and spline wear at a extreme rate, B) 2016 model year has a one piece assembly as previously seen on the 300 TDI. It isn't stated why but an educated guess says a remedy to wear issues. So I contacted JLR customer service and acted on that they would get the dealer to conduct a Technical assistance (The dealer liaises with JLR head technical department for guidance) and see whether my concerns were just or the dealer is correct in their diagnosis. Fast forward and today I get my defender back after 5 days in the workshop. I have  Click image to enlarge The latest one piece flange - shaft now fitted on the back. The gearbox output shaft removed and regreased. And while they were there the rear wheel bearings have be regreased too. Driveline backlash is greatly if not nigh on removed and daily driving is a lot more pleasurable and clonk free. I would like to offer this as a tale and guidance to those that sometimes when informed and gifted with technical know how what the dealer says isn't exactly right. He is doing his job but sub 20k miles isn't right to suffer that level of wear in the driveline. Thanks go to the long suffering service staff of said main dealer and to JLR customer service for assisting me getting this sorted, I don't like causing a fuss, however telling me a part that is suppose to a tight fit but clearly doesn't isn't a great recipe for customer faith and harmony. I hope this is of some use to someone.  |
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19th Jan 2017 7:46pm |
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| R1200GS Member Since: 12 Jul 2015 Location: Hampshire Posts: 265 
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Well done for not giving up on the issue. I wonder how many people would have just not bothered to
carry on after the main dealer said no. There is a part of me that thinks JLR are making a big effort with customer satisfaction but not all the links in the chain share the same mindset....... |
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20th Jan 2017 12:25pm |
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| Scotm Member Since: 28 Feb 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 640  
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Can anyone advise where to get the newer halfshafts at a reasonable price?
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20th Jan 2017 1:01pm |
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| defender9 Member Since: 12 Mar 2016 Location: Fylde Coast Posts: 1613 
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I think Ashcrofts do them but not sure on price compared to LR.
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20th Jan 2017 2:11pm |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4395
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What are the part numbers for these half shafts? Would be a great replacement for the badly worn rear shafts on my '03 110.
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20th Jan 2017 2:24pm |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630 
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Be prepared for a shock... There... wait for it... £250+vat EACH...
Cheers Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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20th Jan 2017 7:19pm |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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I replaced my shafts and flanges for 'OEM' (not genuine but FWIW, they had the same manufacturer's marks) at around 65,000mi and had less slop than you have in the video out of the box.
The clonk was well gone and remains gone too. I think having the learned the delicate action of 'picking up up the backlash' when changing gears will help things moving forward, but who knows how many miles I'll be taking off the clutch though 
I may think about welding the flanges one day, but that's probably best done when they're all new, tight and clean.. Oh well! Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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20th Jan 2017 8:24pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 906
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"I think having the learned the delicate action of 'picking up the backlash' when changing gears will help things moving forward"
What you have there is the art that most LR owners want to put eloquently as 'they are all do it so I must drive it like that' Changing gear under load and feeding the drive back in to take out the driveline slack before resuming the main acceleration until next gear repeat. It is a technique that I got very good at through years of driving a '71 series IIA and my old '94MY v8 discovery that had slightly advanced mainshaft wear. An old sage (read grumpy old land rover mechanic) once told me that to own a land rover you have to learn to change gear properly. This has boiled down to years of old land rovers and worn drive train leading to the above prescribed technique of being very gentle and feeding the power to pre-remove the slack. Before she went in to be fixed there was noticeable clonk going on and off the power (even with gentle application and my existing Alive 150 Autobiography tune) to smoothen the power delivery. And whilst it is early doors I will go and say the 2nd gear downchange and resume kangaroo (think slowing down for a tight junction and taking up drive) has pretty much been eliminated as there is no longer a delay in the engine speed versus the driveline and that slack induced reverb, hence you trying to then back off due to your own mechanical sympathy. This is compounded by the pumas throttle mapping which at the very start initial travel is very on / off This works beautifully when normal driving where some find there foot being jarred as they drive along so through bumps etc you unintentionally are very slightly applying and releasing the throttle pedal. (those who have driven a rod operated series land rover offroad will know the knack to keep a steady throttle position as you bounce about.) On your puma or TD5 to an extent the ECU will read all these minor inputs on and off then add a value to give smooth acceleration or not to, It is very clever to give a level and smooth not harsh and jerky a-La old series. It is also explains why in Low range where exaggerated throttle movements is common due to the rough ground the mapping is very sedate and giving you a 'long' throttle pedal. Imagine it like this but very compartmentalised for effect Having that driveline slack means once you had pressed the throttle enough the engine accelerates and instead of a rapid take up of that slack in the system (Initial clonk), your reaction to gently back off (engine doesn't do + or - minor RPM change, so the command is cut fueling) so momentum takes over and you get overrun which because of the slack you (get another clonk) And factoring in 2nd it is very low geared so you are now you are slowing down swiftly, you apply gentle throttle (ECU again doesn't do very minor change, Ergo apply power) so you get another repetition of initial take up and that whole take up of freeplay, (CLONK again). To me the simple task of knowing the output shaft is tight and the rear shafts no longer have a play has meant that when slowing down and changing to second routine the initial slowing movement no longer is a recipe of taking up driveline slack ready for the clonk as I apply the throttle. All there is now is the immediate take up on the throttle and the vehicle moves not a split second wait then CLONK!! I apologise for the lengthy post but for the first time since I have owned my 110 it is know a pleasure to drive, The first 5500 miles that she did as a demo has been a little harsh on the drivetrain so to me it is now like a new one, and with a conservative driving style will hopefully stay like it for a long time. |
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20th Jan 2017 9:42pm |
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| Disco_Mikey Member Since: 16 Nov 2014 Location: Dundee Posts: 531 
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No they are not. They are around £40 + VAT from memory
EDIT: £65 + VAT for a pair of shafts  |
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20th Jan 2017 10:45pm |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 906
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To keep this topic on track let's not confuse prices for pattern to genuine as lop sided comparisons.
E.g FTC3270 (or as you might know it Def / disco 300 TDI Rear RH shaft) One piece design. Pattern price £30.00 plus the VAT Genuine price £210 plus the VAT LR072976 The 16my RH one piece shafts my topic refers to Genuine RRP £280 + VAT No pattern true alternative, and yes earlier ones will likely fit but I haven't tested it so Caveat emptor is recommended. |
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20th Jan 2017 11:11pm |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630
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Thank you Devon Rover.... I forgot I have a 10% discount from the dealer... So that will be why my invoice is for £250 each...
Regards Tim It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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21st Jan 2017 9:51am |
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