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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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French pollution (read "anti-Defender") vignette.

For the life of me I can't find or understand anywhere if these are compulsory to display or not - does anyone know? Seems varying opinion as to if it's necessary if you're not going into a city.
My wife is French and she can't make head or tail of the blurb that came though the post with the one for the daily VW.

Haven't registered the Def in France yet but assume it's going to be all but banned from cities, not that I care as I can't see why I'd take it when I visit those congested hell-holes.

Post #590662 6th Jan 2017 12:00pm
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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OK, compulsory from today and the Puma engine models are classed as "3" for the 2.4 or "2" for the 2.2
Means 2.4 will have trouble going into Paris during high-pollution times. 2.2 unlikely to be effected.

Compulsory for all cars, including tourists on foreign plates.

Post #593694 17th Jan 2017 12:04am
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: huddersfield
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England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey

That's interesting to know, thanks for the follow up Thumbs Up I don't often go to cities when in France but I expect my td5 will now be banned. Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html

Post #593708 17th Jan 2017 1:19am
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Riverboy



Member Since: 16 May 2016
Location: EU
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France 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

I have no idea what you are talking about? Laughing

And when I do I'll behave in the French manner and pretend I know nothing Whistle

Honestly, you wont be able to fart here soon Rolling Eyes

Post #593712 17th Jan 2017 1:25am
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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mk1collector, a Td5 will be a "4" and yep afraid you will be banned in Paris if there is a pollution alert, and you'll have trouble in Lyon and Grenoble all the time.

Other cities following suit later this year.....but there is no real way of knowing if they will be total bans, partials or when there is an alert as it's all decided by the relevant cities mayor rather than a central policy.

Worth pointing out that anyone planning on going into these cities in any car must get a sticker before they go or be targeted, lectured and fined.

Non-French car owners can order online from mid-Feb and until then the police will be relaxed and only give out the lower 68€ "failed to display" fine. After that then the fines go up pretty sharply. Routes into Paris from UK will be some of the most heavily policed I suspect.

Post #593714 17th Jan 2017 1:33am
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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Riverboy wrote:
I have no idea what you are talking about? Laughing

And when I do I'll behave in the French manner and pretend I know nothing Whistle

Honestly, you wont be able to fart here soon Rolling Eyes


You're still allowed to fart in Provence???!!!!???
Bow down

Post #593716 17th Jan 2017 1:39am
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Riverboy



Member Since: 16 May 2016
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France 2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

Only when the Mistral blows Whistle

Post #593717 17th Jan 2017 1:40am
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
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United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red

Defender is an early TD5, No cat. That makes it EU2 and a 5.
The other car (2007 PD130 Ibiza) is EU4, which should make it a 3. Looks like I'm Censored either way!!

Never mind, plenty of other bits of Europe to drive to!

Post #593718 17th Jan 2017 2:20am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
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Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

To understand, do all cars on French roads, be it French registration plates as well as all foreign registration plates, need such a sticker in the window?
Geneva location is right at the border, and it is unavoidable for us to enter France regularly, certainly because the Bi1, Super U, Intermarché, Auchan, etc. are all within a few km from the border, and are quite a bit cheaper than our own supermarkets.
If the need for that sticker is correct, it is interesting that none of our newspapers, none of the Swiss TV and other press have even mentioned the existance of such sticker. At the time of all the french hoola about having a mandatory alcohol self test in your car, the Swiss press was all over that. Today, that requirement is no more as far as I know.
Now, additionally, I don't think there is anybody in Switzerland who would look forward or even accept to glue a French sticker on his/her car. Our love for les Fr..zes is not that passionate. Whistle Rolling with laughter
Eric

Edit - just seen that is is only mandatory for driving in cities of Paris and Grenoble now, but other cities may follow suit. A bit like the London LEZ zone. Apparently not needed if you stay away from french cities, so if you just drive from the UK or from any other country on highways or or rural roads to your destination and stay away from entering Paris and Grenoble now, other cities in the foreseeable future, we are good. At least for now. Rolling Eyes

Now that we are on this subject, in my city of origin, Antwerp, Belgium, they also introduce as of 01-02-2017 a LEZ. The better part of the city will allow EU4 diesels still to drive, but only until 31-12-2020. Therafter they remain banned for good.
The way it works there is by numberplate recognition, Belgian and Dutch registration plates don't have to do anything, as Belgium have access to the Dutch car registration database for this purpose, but all cars registered in other countries, so including Great Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland need to register their truck on line before allowed to enter the LEZ zone without receiving a fine at home afterward.
Registration requires a whole hoola of data, including a scanned copy of the car registration card showing the applicable EU norm. The Belgian authorities apparently have agreements in place with all European countries for obtaining the owner's data for purpose of sending fines for cars which do not meet the requirements or which have not pre-registered.
In the spirit of protecting the enviroment Laughing , I doubt that Mrs. May will be able to avoid this information sharing.
Don't hold your breath, 10 years ago I still drove happily thru France regularly being flashed for moderate speeding, never got a fine. Today that does not work anymore, two years ago I got a simple parking ticket of €15.00 in a small Belgian town, threw it away, and 6 months later got a registered mail in Switzerland from a Belgian law firm claiming the fine which with expenses had grown to €35.00. Just paid, case closed, don't do it anymore now.
Now with the Antwerp LEZ, and other Belgium cities will follow, banning the SVX totally from 01-01-2020 has as result that our desire to ever move back to that country has dropped further from zero into serious Siberian winter temps territory. Cool You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
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Post #593728 17th Jan 2017 4:55am
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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miker wrote:
Defender is an early TD5, No cat. That makes it EU2 and a 5.
The other car (2007 PD130 Ibiza) is EU4, which should make it a 3. Looks like I'm Censored either way!!

Never mind, plenty of other bits of Europe to drive to!


I think you'll get a 2 with the Ibiza, so never likely need to worry. You're right though plenty of roads and also in France, plenty of off-road lanes to use without without any prospect of councils closing them down like in UK.

Post #593752 17th Jan 2017 8:49am
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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ericvv wrote:
To understand, do all cars on French roads, be it French registration plates as well as all foreign registration plates, need such a sticker in the window?


They do if they are going into a controlled zone which at the moment is Grenoble and Paris cities entirely and Lyon following suit in March. Even if there are no controls, which means certain cars banned at certain times, in place on that day then you must still have the sticker displayed or get a fine. Later on in the year, if there are controls in place you'll get a much higher fine and possibly your car seized and impounded until the alert control has passed.


Quote:
Geneva location is right at the border, and it is unavoidable for us to enter France regularly, certainly because the Bi1, Super U, Intermarché, Auchan, etc. are all within a few km from the border, and are quite a bit cheaper than our own supermarkets.
If the need for that sticker is correct, it is interesting that none of our newspapers, none of the Swiss TV and other press have even mentioned the existance of such sticker. At the time of all the french hoola about having a mandatory alcohol self test in your car, the Swiss press was all over that. Today, that requirement is no more as far as I know.
Now, additionally, I don't think there is anybody in Switzerland who would look forward or even accept to glue a French sticker on his/her car. Our love for les Fr..zes is not that passionate. Whistle Rolling with laughter
Eric


I know that its been discussed by the Anncey authorities...to introduce a control zone around the lake and town area in 2018.
The sticker is same as CH vignette - once on not coming off and annoyingly they are twice the size.
On the Paris news at the weekend they were stopping motorists and asking if they had their sticker - they couldn't find anyone who even knew about the rules. Communication has been shocking so no surprise the neighbours have not picked up on it. My wifes company organised and sent some stickers to us a week or so ago and thats the only reason I found out about it.

Quote:
In the spirit of protecting the enviroment Laughing , I doubt that Mrs. May will be able to avoid this information sharing.
Don't hold your breath, 10 years ago I still drove happily thru France regularly being flashed for moderate speeding, never got a fine. Today that does not work anymore, two years ago I got a simple parking ticket of €15.00 in a small Belgian town, threw it away, and 6 months later got a registered mail in Switzerland from a Belgian law firm claiming the fine which with expenses had grown to €35.00. Just paid, case closed, don't do it anymore now.
Now with the Antwerp LEZ, and other Belgium cities will follow, banning the SVX totally from 01-01-2020 has as result that our desire to ever move back to that country has dropped further from zero into serious Siberian winter temps territory. Cool


Yeah, times change. I used to live in Basle and work over the border. I landed a ticket per week minimum from the Frenchies and they always sent a ticket but I, along with everyone else I knew, put it straight in the bin as I'm sure French driving in Basle did.
Around 2009 things changed and I started getting letters from CH companies and finally got an invite to the local police station !

Post #593755 17th Jan 2017 9:04am
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VeeTee



Member Since: 06 Mar 2011
Location: near Amsterdam
Posts: 1274

Netherlands 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi CSW Epsom Green

ericvv wrote:
Now that we are on this subject, in my city of origin, Antwerp, Belgium, they also introduce as of 01-02-2017 a LEZ. The better part of the city will allow EU4 diesels still to drive, but only until 31-12-2020. Therafter they remain banned for good.
The way it works there is by numberplate recognition, Belgian and Dutch registration plates don't have to do anything, as Belgium have access to the Dutch car registration database for this purpose, but all cars registered in other countries, so including Great Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland need to register their truck on line before allowed to enter the LEZ zone without receiving a fine at home afterward.


To add to that, the same applies here in Rotterdam and Amsterdam. And I think it is a disonest method (numberplate registration), because the year of registration determines if you may enter the city ot not. Our Freelander TD4 may not enter because it is registered in 2000, but the same car, with the same motor and same specifications was made from 2000 until 2006. So if my Fl1 TD4 was registered just a few months later, it was OK to enter the city... This is pure discriminating on registration year, not on emmisions class ... Shocked Cheers, Vincent
Defender 110 CSW 300Tdi | M416A1 Trailer + Autohome Columbus RTT | Freelander TD4 | 88 Series III V6


Last edited by VeeTee on 17th Jan 2017 10:17am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #593756 17th Jan 2017 9:06am
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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Posts: 212

Agree with that. What's the point of pollution controls if the actual pollution level the cars put out means nothing.
It's all part of a wider EU ploy to get everyone scrapping cars once they are 15yrs old and buying heavily taxed new ones.

Post #593759 17th Jan 2017 9:23am
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Gonarezhou



Member Since: 08 Mar 2015
Location: Potchefstroom
Posts: 135

South Africa 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Alaska White

So where do you apply for the sticker? I want one! I also want to keep the bureaucrats happy! Imagine they can add to their monthly report that they sent a sticker to South Africa!

Post #593807 17th Jan 2017 1:53pm
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Froglaise



Member Since: 24 Sep 2016
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Posts: 212

Apply here - http://www.certificat-air.gouv.fr/ from next month onwards - just €4 including postage!!

Post #593809 17th Jan 2017 1:57pm
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