 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Removing Puma Centre Console |
 
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765   
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Hello all,
Want to get behind the centre console in my 2011 2.4 to take a look at the heater matrix and switches. I have removed the two bolts but (not a great surprise) it doesn't budge. So I am assuming there are various clips behind the console. For fear of breaking them can anyone advise where they are located, what time of clip or fixing they are, what tool I need and whether there are any other screws I've not noticed that I should be undoing. It'd be much appreciated. Ta  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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28th Jun 2016 10:03am |
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| BigRuss Member Since: 15 May 2010 Location: Norfolk Posts: 2785  
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Yes it does and then it's a case of pull, look at pics on here you will see there are come push fit clips that are holding it in place Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black |
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28th Jun 2016 10:12am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16868 
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There are two clips at the top and two at the bottom. A flat lever carefully inserted in the side of the panel can pop it forwards. You don't have to take the radio out first, but it is often easier to put the panel back if the radio is not in it.
You won't be able even to see the heater matrix by taking the centre panel out though, to do this you will need to take out the entire dash, remove the heater unit, and then dismantle it. Big job - well, fairly big job!  Click image to enlarge |
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28th Jun 2016 10:14am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765
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Bloody hell. The first thing I want to check are the heater switches, specifically temp and direction (not fan/speed) as they don't move properly and I wonder if this is the cause of the excessive heat. If that doesn't work then the matrix it is.
On the last point, if there is excessive heat can that by definition mean the heater matrix isn't working? Surely it means it's working well, just the control of the heat is the problem? Or can it be malfunctioning hot or cold? Second question on the heater/switches/matrix, given it is hot here and I will likely not need the heater for some months, is there a fuse I can take out in the meantime that will stop the matrix producing heat. Be a useful stop gap before tackling the work in Autumn.... Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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28th Jun 2016 10:53am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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A fuse would stop the fan but you'd still have hot water flowing round.
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28th Jun 2016 11:32am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16868
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Excessive heat from the heater can only be caused by hot coolant circulating through the matrix when the knob controlling the coolant valve is in the OFF position. This may be due to a faulty coolant valve (a horribly expensive "cheap" plastic thing) but is more likely to be due to the cable connecting the knob to the valve being incorrectly adjusted.
The valve is located in the engine bay near the bulkhead, on a RHD vehicle it is on the left side on a large metal bracket fixed to the bulkhead. I am not sure where it is on a LHD vehicle, but it shouldn't be hard to find. The cable inner is hooked through the knob slider thingy at one end, and the valve at the other, and the cable outer is held by spring clips at each end. Adjustment is by removing one of these clips and lengthening or shortening the effective length of the cable outer part to get the right adjustment. The knob end (if I can say that on a family forum) of the cable is acessible if you remove the dash centre panel and then undo the four (I think) screws which hold the heater control panel in place (the heater control panelk does not move when you take the centre panel out, its fastenings are behind the centre panel). Not too big a job, this one. If the heat is definitely coming from the heater (test by turnign the fan on, if the air is hot after a few minutes with the knob set to cold and the fan on) then the only cause can be coolant still flowing through the matrix when it shouldn't be, this is not and cannot be a fault with the matrix, it can only be a valve fault. (By contrastm if it never got hot it could be valve or matrix, because a blockage anywhere will stop the flow). There is no way to stop heat coming from the heater by pulling a fuse, since the process which putts heat into the matrix is purely hydro-mechanical. You have to stop the coolant flow in order to do this, and the valve is mechanical. If I was investigating this problem, I would focus on the valve. Firstly I would check that with the knob in the cold position, the lever on the valve has really moved all the way to the closed position stop (cable adjustment). If still unsure, I would disconnect the cable abnd manually set the valve to the closed position. If this disn;t stop the matrix getting hot, it suggests that the valve is faulty. I might even try disconnecting and plugging (or perhaps just clamping) the hose from the valve to the heater matrix (could be done adjacent to the valve) to see what effect this has. If this doesn't cool your heater down, either the heat isn't coming from the heater at all, or you have the run-out thermonuclear reactor that was fitted to selected vehicles instead of a conventional heater! Unfortunately the heater valve is a diverter valve rather than a stop valve, so simply disconnecting the heater in its entirety isn't straightforward, you'd have to connect a bypass hose in place of the heater that linked the feed from the valve to the heater with the return connction from the heater to the engine cooling system. I haven't ever lookind into what this would involve but it would be "do-able" without doubt. For what it is worth, on my Puma the heater stays unheated with the knob in the cold position, so it is possible to make it work. (You will, as I am sure you know, find that the temperature on a properly working heater varies wildly according to what the vehicle is doing. There are three settings on a Puma heater: "Tepid", "Solar Flare", and "Wildly Fluctuating". It is however the best heater yet fitted as standard to a Landrover). |
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28th Jun 2016 11:45am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765
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Blackwolf, thanks for such a detailed reply (as always).
I shall tackle the heater as recommended as much of what you say resonates. Switch on cold, fan on or off, no difference. The metal plate below the heater gets beyond hot, almost too hot to touch after an hour or so of speed. Constant hot air coming out of the ducts by the gearbox. Also, and I don't know what this means, there seems to be a constant 'blowing' noise from the same location, even if the speed switch is off?? As far as a divert pipe is concerned, with proper valve system, makes me wonder why no one has ever done a retro fit upgrade. Could make the already better (agreed) Puma heater even better. Also, saw a DiscoII dash recently and noticed the vents and switches seemed to be in the same place. Is the Disco variant based on the same system? Has anyone swapped the dials and added the extras to upgrade from Def to Disco? Is it possible? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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28th Jun 2016 12:32pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16868
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Disco 2 is totally and utterly different, and there is far, far more space behind the Disco 2 dash*. Also of course the Disco 2 systems (in all except the poverty-spec of poverty-specs - the "hardship model") are computer-controlled.
There are two major shortcomings in my view with the Puma heater unit, both probably the result of a reluctance to spend money on engineering and the lack of space for the heater. First is the fact that the inlet and outlet for the heater matrix are both on the left hand side of the heater unit, and consequently the left hand side of the heater radiator always runs many degrees hotter than the right hand side (this is why the LH air vent always blows much hotter than the right; the LR 'offical bodge' on Topix involves blocking up the fins on the LH side of the heater so no air can pass through the hottest part of the radiator). The seond is that in common with most modern diesels, the temperature of the coolant varies hugely according to what the engine is doing. Because of this. most vehicles have some kind of thermostatic control to maintain a constant-ish temperature (most commonly they'll have the heater matrix hot all the time and use a thermostatically-controlled blend valve to mix air through the matrix with cold air that has bypassed the matrix to get the required blend temperature (this is how a Disco 2 works), an alternative is a thermostatic flow valve on the coolant circuit to the heater so more coolant enters the heater when its temperature drops, and less when it rises) but the Defender has none of this. It is a shame, because with a little extra work LR could have done a good job, as it is it really is a bit of a bodge. The heater, as far as I know, is unique to the TDCi Defender, so it is not as though it was an off-the-shelf item - it must have been designed for the job, but it suggestes that there was very little investment, thought, or care put into the job. *Actually this is slightly misleading - there is very, very little space behind a Disco 2 dash, but only because most of it is taken up by the heater assemblies. Without the heater assemblies there'd be room for a party! |
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28th Jun 2016 1:13pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765
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OK Blackwolf,
Located the valve, as directed. Seemed to be stuck, so gave it a clean and wipe down, added some lube. Much better movement both by hand under the bonnet and in the cab with the switch. Engine and cab too hot due to a drive and weather to test now, but will report findings tomorrow morning. Cheers Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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28th Jun 2016 4:41pm |
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| Merlin Member Since: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Newmarket Posts: 980
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I had a Puma that was too hot from new. Thought that was how they are. Once I changed the heater valve for a new one, things improved and now I have hot and cold. Not an expensive bit.
Merlin |
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29th Jun 2016 1:14pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16868
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They're about £85 plus VAT.
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29th Jun 2016 2:51pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765
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BW, unless it's a sealed, unopenable unit, looks like I'll be dipping in to my hard earned. Did the test run, heat through the low vents, no fan, roasting. Metal plate, roasting. Speed on one, dash vents, roasting. Went under the bonnet on return, and the single pipe coming out of the valve in the direction of the matrix......roasting. I've a good mind just to disconnect the matrix feed and cap the valve opening. Would this damage the matrix or anything en route? Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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29th Jun 2016 4:14pm |
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| languedoc Member Since: 13 May 2016 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 283  
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Don't block it off. Its part of your coolant system after the thermostat opens
It may not help but I would try a coolant flush, valve may clear.... |
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29th Jun 2016 4:21pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765
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Wasn't planning on blocking the valve off entirely, just the exit port that leads to the matrix. Both pipes in/out of the valve from the engine were hot and therefore I assume functioning. Would your point stand if I blocked just the port and the valve remained open and functioning (assuming it is functioning, but given the engine temp maintains a steady mid-point reading on the gauge, I presume it is...). Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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29th Jun 2016 4:27pm |
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