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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19449

United Kingdom 
Pre and post 1997 licence trailer towing clarification.
I just thought I would post this from Ifor Williams for others to use for a clearer definition of what you can and can't tow.
Particularly useful if you have a post 1997 driving licence.

Thumbs Up


Click image to enlarge


Hopefully others may find this information useful.


Last edited by custom90 on 13th May 2016 2:52pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #511786 7th Mar 2016 8:58pm
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AJC



Member Since: 30 Nov 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1327

United Kingdom 
So glad I have my class 1. Makes life easier.
Post #511794 7th Mar 2016 9:31pm
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Cupboard



Member Since: 21 Mar 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2971

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Corris Grey
It's not helped by the rules changing (or at least what's written on the relevant website) last year with nothing being said Laughing

I still find it ridiculous that I can legally tow more with a little car than I can with my Defender, and that I can quite happily tow many, many things behind a tractor with a bog standard car licence. I'd be much happier if you needed a ticket for *any* trailer.
Post #511886 8th Mar 2016 7:46am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16807

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
AJC wrote:
So glad I have my class 1. Makes life easier.


+1 Thumbs Up
Post #511901 8th Mar 2016 8:42am
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Nostromo



Member Since: 17 Jul 2015
Location: The Mendip Hills
Posts: 73

United Kingdom 
Don't know if I'm the only one - but I dont find that Ifor Williams "Licensed to Tow?" poster very clear at all . . ???

I think I can grasp "Trailer MAM" = The maximum combined unladen weight of the trailer and the permitted load it can carry. I've got a medium sized builders trailer that can carry 2 Tons . . . I'm not sure how heavy the actual trailer is but I'd estimate it at 5cwt . . . so I'm estimating my Trailer MAM would be Two and a quarter Ton fully loaded ? . . is that correct ?

As for the definition of Vehicle MAM on the poster . . . . . Vehicle MAM = The combined vehicle kerb weight unladen weight and load capacity . . what on earth does that mean ? . . . . and could anyone tell me what these three figures add up to for a Defender 90 XS ? . . . sounds like a high number ???

Could anyone say what the rules are for pre 1997 licence holders ?

And I guess the final questions have to be can pre (or post) 1997 license holders tow my loaded trailer with a Defender 90XS ?

Yours confused ?

Confused

Thanks.
Post #531257 13th May 2016 12:25pm
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Disco_Mikey



Member Since: 16 Nov 2014
Location: Dundee
Posts: 531

Scotland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green
And then Operators Licence and Tacho's add even more confusion Laughing

Only for business use, obviously
Post #531261 13th May 2016 12:35pm
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
Looking at the poster and checking the D.V.L.A. site it would appear to me that the poster is for cat C licence holders. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #531273 13th May 2016 1:42pm
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Nostromo



Member Since: 17 Jul 2015
Location: The Mendip Hills
Posts: 73

United Kingdom 
I'm still confused . . . . any further comments here would be much appreciated . . .

In relation to an ordinary car licence, as most of us hold . . .

Have any readers got an understanding of what is the max weight a pre 1997 licence holder can tow behind a Defender 90 ?

And also, have any members got an understanding of what is the max weight a post 1997 licence holder can tow behind a Defender 90 ?

Confused
Post #531635 15th May 2016 7:59am
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1758

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
Pre 1997 you have B+E entitlement, allowing you to tow the full 3500kg that a 90 is plated to tow.

Post 1997 you are governed by the 3500kg train weight limit (trailer gross + vehicle gross)
I believe a 90 has a gross weight around 2500kg. This would allow you to tow a trailer with a gross weight of 1000kg.

Gross weight: maximum permitted weight according to rating plate of vehicle/trailer + cargo
Post #531654 15th May 2016 8:36am
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2519

Scotland 
The MAM (gross weight) of my 90 is 2,400kg so I will use that figure. Yours will be on the VIN plate if different. Plated weight for the trailer is the maximum gross weight, or MAM.

Pre-1997 license holders can tow anything up to a gross train weight of 8,250kg, with a 90 this comfortably accommodates the vehicles maximum towing capacity so you can tow a trailer plated up to 3,500kg. Gross train weight in this instance would be 2,400kg + 3,500kg so 4,900kg.

Post-1997 license holders can tow a trailer plated up to 750kg with a vehicle up to 3,500kg MAM. This would imply that 750kg was the maximum but they can also tow a trailer plated over 750kg as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg. With a 90 this means in practice that you can tow a trailer plated up to 1,100kg.

Note that the above is all done based on plated MAM figures for car and trailer, so for example my trailer weighs about 600kg empty but I could not tow it on my standard post-1997 license as the MAM is 2,600kg which, combined with that of the vehicle, pushes me over the 3,500kg limit for standard licenses.

It changed again post-2013 but I'm not familiar with those rules not falling into that category.

If you're post-1997 just do the B+E, it's really easy and then you can tow anything a Land Rover will pull.

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving...ou-can-tow
Post #531657 15th May 2016 8:47am
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Disco_Mikey



Member Since: 16 Nov 2014
Location: Dundee
Posts: 531

Scotland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green
One reverse manoeuvre, a few safety checks, an hour of driving, and observation

Surprising just how easy it was Thumbs Up
Post #531670 15th May 2016 9:25am
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Riccarton



Member Since: 10 Aug 2015
Location: Gods' Own Country
Posts: 280

Scotland 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Zambezi Silver
Nostromo wrote:


I think I can grasp "Trailer MAM" = The maximum combined unladen weight of the trailer and the permitted load it can carry. I've got a medium sized builders trailer that can carry 2 Tons . . . I'm not sure how heavy the actual trailer is but I'd estimate it at 5cwt . . . so I'm estimating my Trailer MAM would be Two and a quarter Ton fully loaded ? . . is that correct ?


It may be worth you checking your numbers on your trailer for peace of mind. It's very unusual for a trailer manufacturer to specify the load capacity of a trailer over and above the weight of the trailer itself. For instance, a 3.5te Ifor includes its own weight in the 3.5te figure - it cannot carry 3.5te legally.

Also, 5cwt (250kg) seems pretty low for a trailer capable of carrying 2te. For example I have an 8'x4' single axle trailer which is built very light weight but to carry a 1te payload - empty it weighs 270(ish)kg and rides on a 1300kg Alko axle.
Post #531698 15th May 2016 11:18am
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Si



Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 51

United Kingdom 
Any ideas on the cost of the course and test for the B+E
Post #649021 8th Sep 2017 4:14pm
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miker



Member Since: 13 Sep 2015
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1758

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Rioja Red
I paid £450 last year.

This included a morning of training, test in the afternoon. Test fee and use of the instructors vehicle+trailer included.
Post #649024 8th Sep 2017 4:20pm
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Si



Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 51

United Kingdom 
Thanks Thumbs Up
Post #649025 8th Sep 2017 4:21pm
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