 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Fuel Leak... Have you seen this before? |
 
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| munch90 Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: guildford Posts: 3558  
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I changed my hose last week , found also tank wont move enough to drop down
so fitted new pipe without moving tank I cut a small round hole inside on the floor so could get to do up new clip easy , then fitted a bung in the floor in the hole ( rear is carpeted so bung is under carpet ) makes it a 5 min job to replace pipe in the future whole job took about 25mins and £10 for enough pipe to do it twice only thing was pipe was like new when it came off but fitted new length anyway |
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31st May 2014 1:54pm |
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| ronwong Member Since: 28 Jun 2012 Location: Singapore Posts: 120 
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Maxx Ross, my symptoms are exactly the same as yours
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31st May 2014 3:39pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2287  
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Hello ronwong Welcome to the culb 
To answer your questions... 1. The 'J'' part of the breather pipe assembly does vent 'to air', and therefore is not connected to anything its orientation is as shown, on the OS, side of the tank. 2. The 'J' part did not leak and appears to not be the vulnerable part here. I did reuse it. 3. The short piece of pipe (3/4 inch ID) had 2 splits on it and the larger piece had 1 split at the junction to to 'J' smaller hose. At the other end of this larger pipe (at the fuel filler end) it was very cracked, but I had 1 right through split (small length of 3/4 pipe) and 2 well on the way to being right through. 4. The other end of longer 3/4" pipe (breather assembly) connects to the molding incorporating the filler cap + main filler pipe. 5. There are 2 additional main fuel lines that connect to the top of the tank together with an electrical connection for the fuel gauge, these are 'pinch' release / push 'click' to re-connect. If Defenders ran on Petrol...this top leaking of fuel at the tank approximately 0.5M from the exhaust pipe could (would) be much more serious...  ... I would suggest a fix and 3/4 fill tank until sorted.
Whilst my 90 is 3 years old, it had just 7k miles on it when the leak started, and had been off the road for almost 1 year of its life before I bought it, it has also been garaged, and has never 'live near the coast', a suggestion from LR as to why it may have failed so early... hardly helping the vehicles credentials
Good luck with your fix. SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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31st May 2014 6:30pm |
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| Chris-G Member Since: 25 Aug 2015 Location: Four Marks, Hampshire Posts: 7 
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Hi X4SKP,
I just hit the same problem trying to remove the fuel tank on my 2013 D90. It just does not want to move forward more than a few mm. My wish to remove the tank was triggered by another of your posts in the Corrosion treatment section ... removing the tank before Dintrol'ing. I wanted to do this too. As a result of struggling to remove the tank and only finding your write up of one way of doing it today I have finished my Dinitrol treatment reluctantly with the tank in place .... as an engineer I'm not totally happy about that. I will ponder your solution and may embark on something similar another time. Anyway, thank you fro two excellent series of posts. Regards Chris 2013 D90 XS SW |
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29th Sep 2015 1:19pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2287
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Hello Chris-G
I laid under my 90 and thought there just has to be away to get the tank out easier than the route I ended up taking, but the more I looked, and measured, pushed and pulled, the more 'attractive' my solution appeared. I'm an engineer too, and whilst I was happy enough to tackle this, I genuinely don't know how Land Rover would remove the Tank on a 90 (I believe the 110 has better clearance). I use the advice (and better pricing policy than LR) of a local Independent LR Specialist from time to time, and they said too that these can be a  to remove, there is also variation between inherently the same vehicles. They 'flex' the tank out with a length of scaffolding flattened at one end, they even have a name for it 'the persuader'.
Not really a good thing to do on a blow molded product, but it does pop it out if you try hard enough. If you then imagine trying the reverse the procedure, you will see that there is no easy purchase point for the operation, together with factoring in, supporting the tank without unduly stressing any of the connection hoses. Not a designed for maintenance set up overall... 
I was forced to get the Tank Out, to replace the breather pipe, but the 'fix' proved useful when exposing (in my view) a key area for applying Dinitrol. If you do get the Tank Out then clearly you are free to cover everything, and get in everywhere. Currently (Tank In) whilst the underside of the rear floor is probably less important to treat, the forward facing rear cross member really can't be tackled (from this side) there are also some really good entry points to get internally, some possible from other directions, but you just wanted to have a clear view of attack for this treatment in this area. Another advantage of Tank Out is that you can tape off the connection / release mechanisms for the fuel hoses so that if (when) you need to get to them later on, they are not clogged with Dinitrol Good luck with perusing this  Click image to enlarge Tank Out view (90) with the modified Chassis Brackets to retain the Tank Click image to enlarge Rear Cross Member SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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29th Sep 2015 2:12pm |
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| Chris-G Member Since: 25 Aug 2015 Location: Four Marks, Hampshire Posts: 7
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Hi,
As you say the 'Persuader' approach is a bit offensive and still leaves you with the install problem. You were very brave in making things maintainable for 'the next time' or the 'next person' ... always good if you can. I do like the two views with the rear cross member and floor with the tank removed. But the car has got to be back on the road so I'm putting it back together now. I will have a look at removing the under tray lugs and getting some suitable extension plates drawn up for another attempt at that area another time. I am not proud of failing to treat that area. 
I will just have to live with the shame! Thanks for some great posts. Chris 2013 D90 XS SW |
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29th Sep 2015 2:49pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2287
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Hello Chris... I feel your pain...
Would be good to hear if anyone else has experienced this or sees it differently. SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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29th Sep 2015 3:32pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351 
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X4SKP, a 130 tanks drops out with little encouragement. It does't seem to be wedged in there like a 90 or rub on anything. The bash tray collects lots of dirt or sand however.
I added a drain plug to mine when I was washing it out due to contamination, and didn't want to do the job twice. I did reuse the rubber seal for the pick up (big hole on top of tank) but the dam thing leaked. A new seal, another $70 and the job done twice sorted it. Well before the contamination, I have also had the breather on the J pipe somehow become clogged. The dealer tells me its common after water crossings apparently and fitted the situation. This caused the tank to pressurise and leak from ?. The dealer fixed it but looked like the lower port on the filler tube. So upon return I ran a new J bit of pipe up high into an external cavity of the body work to keep it clear of dust and water instead of leaving it right next to the rear wheel. However when I had the tank out I noticed the J valve seems to have no flow either way, or has a pop off pressure to it that isn't obvious. Did you happen to check yours? Now it's getting warmer leaks are becoming obvious. It seems I have a small pressure leak in the moulded plastic of the filler neck just under the cap. I tried welding it with the soldering iron but seems to have failed. But I'm also wondering if this leak/pressure could be linked to this J valve seemingly to have direction, or is it clogged again. I also need to do my hoses, they are cracked bit not leaking, so out it comes for a third time. Thought I'd buy a Toyota diesel breather as the Land Rover one is priced like their hoses, and perhaps last as long. We have a little roll your eyes saying down here that it takes three attempts to fix a Defender. Have no idea where it came from but I seem to be going beyond, going further, going more than I should. Bloody Land Rover. My Defender and travels |
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30th Sep 2015 8:23pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2287
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Hello newhue
Sounds like your chasing one or more problems...as you say Land Rover.
To be fair i'd still rather get my toolbox out on a Land Rover as most vehicles now appear to have gone totally down the route of 'look don't touch'! Couple of Points The valve in the small J pipe, is I believe a non return value, as if you blow down the pipe both ways it works one way and not the other. This is (again I believe) to stop the fuel leaking out in the event of a roll over, (being up side down), others on here may know more. Raising this to prevent clogging if wading in or out of water with a high mud / sand content should help and I have heard of others doing this. Replacing the breathe pipe, at Land Rover prices I just decided I didn't want to do, I just couldn't justify why it was so expensive. Beyond the price it was mainly to avoid the time and effort (apparently) required every 2-3 years again I decided just wasn't on. I'm fairly convinced that the marine grade breath pipe I used will last longer and at a fraction of the price, its now being tested! The tight geometry on a 90 rear tank getting in and out was an issue, it looks to me that the tank went in the chassis (at rolling chassis stage during manufacture) before the body went on, may be wrong here and again some else may know, but this clip looks to support this view.
If your Tank leaks then it may possible to fix it, I did this on a Motocross bike once with success, lots of youtube videos on this idea, but sounds like you have tried this. Good Luck SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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1st Oct 2015 10:54am |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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Copied from another thread, words by blackwolf commenting on a leaking fuel tank pipes and a swooth sound when opening the filler cap.
In the event that this breather becomes blocked, there is a two-way safety valve incorporated into the filler cap which will open if the tank's internal pressure differs by more than a few psi from the outside pressure. The purpose of this is to prevent the tank from collapsing or bursting if the breather is blocked. From your description your atmospheric breather (small pipe) is blocked so the tank is running in a depressurised condition, the pressure difference being limited by the safety valve in the cap. This is bad for two reasons. Firstly the LP fuel pump will be working harder to draw the fuel to the engine, and secondly any dirt, wetness, and other grot can be drawn through the lock barrel in the cap into the tank. My recent fuel problems (as reported in other threads) have made me hyper-aware of the vulnerabilities of the system. I would strongly recommend fixing this ASAP, and also extending the small breather pipe to somewhere you can guarantee is clean and dry, eg inside the rear tub. Yep your right X4SKP seems I might have a few problems and perhaps making another. I was convinced I saw air bubbles coming from a seam in the mounded plastic on the filler neck just under where the cap screws on, perhaps I should get my eyes checked.. Definitely changing that valve for non LR one, mine is only 3 years old and been tucked away after the initial blockage <2 years from new. Have to admit you don't see many Defenders with a few years age on them that don't have a stain around the filler neck. My Defender and travels |
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1st Oct 2015 7:18pm |
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| Natlas Member Since: 20 Mar 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 460
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Just found a picture of 2015 manufacture showing a new route for the small curved part of the breather pipe. May be of interest to those who are replacing their breather pipes. See post by CDN38 for link to many other manufacturing pics.
Click image to enlarge 2.2 90 XS 88" Series One Old Norton 
Minerva |
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25th Nov 2015 11:31pm |
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| Natlas Member Since: 20 Mar 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 460
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and a close up in case you can't get it from the first pic. The curved part of the pipe seems to go right back up to the top of the filler tube.
Click image to enlarge 2.2 90 XS 88" Series One Old Norton
Minerva |
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25th Nov 2015 11:33pm |
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| CDN38 Member Since: 14 Nov 2014 Location: Courtenay, BC Posts: 729  
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Yes, the tank goes in on the first portion of the assembly line along with suspension, and exhaust, some wiring, steering and then the engine.
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26th Nov 2015 12:57am |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2287
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Thanks Natlas and CDN38
I'm sure now that the installation of the Fuel Tank during the assembly of a Defender 'to rolling chassis stage' is achieved by placing the Tank down into the chassis i.e sitting it onto its metal 'protection tray'. This is in line with generally a 'top down not bottom up' approach, as the Chassis gets built up. It is possible that the Chassis gets flipped at some point but if the Tank installation on a 2.2 whilst different in detail is basically the same location principle as the 2.4, the Tank just locates within the available space (minimal in a 90) and if the Chassis above was inverted would fall out (all be it with the pipework attached). The same end result applies, on assembly of the upper body, short of going through the floor, the Tank needs to drop down to get it out, OK on a 110 / 130 (I hear), at least for some... a on a 90 SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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26th Nov 2015 9:55am |
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