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DoubleA84



Member Since: 11 Sep 2014
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 9

United Kingdom 1997 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Coniston Green
Jet fuel
A guy I work with used to work as a helicopter technician for the RAF
he tells me that the RAF only use 1 type of fuel in all there vehicles and that its Kerosine and that Land Rovers are designed to run on it without any additives...
Any other service men or ex service men on here that can confirm this??
Post #359238 21st Sep 2014 3:30pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1726

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
I know that 10 years plus ago, the crash trucks the company I used to work for supplied to the forces had to run on Avtur, these were Detroit Diesel two strokes, and I think they've been refitted with Caterpillar engines since.

I'm not sure if the TDCI would like it though, the earlier turbo diesels and tdi's will run on most rubbish though, chip oil, home brew!
Post #359244 21st Sep 2014 3:46pm
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uncas



Member Since: 22 Nov 2012
Location: Wentworth near Rotherham
Posts: 340

United Kingdom 
Don't do it kerosene doesn't have the same lubrication properties as Derv

Uncas
Post #359278 21st Sep 2014 6:56pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
DoubleA84 wrote:
Any other service men or ex service men on here that can confirm this??




The closest I can get is that aircraft fuel tanks are subject to water sediment checks the excess from the samples did quite often find it's way into diesel engined vehicles. But your work colleague is definitely talking rot! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #359322 21st Sep 2014 8:42pm
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derbywill



Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 539

England 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Java Black
Wasn't the td5 designed to run on avgas and diesel ? I believe I read the U.S. army had some soley to be run on it.
Will 2005 90 XS
1954 86'' Series 1 tilt
Post #359355 21st Sep 2014 9:53pm
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Lou Sparts



Member Since: 15 Apr 2012
Location: Kent
Posts: 1501

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
Td5 engine development work was done running on kerosene so should be ok for these engines. Other Diesel engines with a high pressure pump will suffer accellarated pump wear as kerosene has less lubricity than diesel. 2005 Td5 90 XS

Steve
Post #359482 22nd Sep 2014 4:05pm
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Natlas



Member Since: 20 Mar 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 459

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Jet fuel and diesel are similar but chemically different fuels. The engines might run but probably not with normal performance and possible harmful side effects as mentioned elsewhere. After all, you can get a TDCi to run on a high petrol mix but it won't do it any good. 2.2 90 XS
88" Series One
Old Norton Smile
Minerva
Post #359498 22nd Sep 2014 5:06pm
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DoubleA84



Member Since: 11 Sep 2014
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 9

United Kingdom 1997 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Coniston Green
I ran my 300 tdi on pure veg oil for a while, apart from smelling like a chip shop it ran fine but the MPG went down to about 18mpg!! Shocked
Post #359842 23rd Sep 2014 10:26pm
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Buccaneer



Member Since: 11 May 2014
Location: London/Kabul
Posts: 148

United Kingdom 1998 Defender 90 V8 Petrol 50th Auto Atlantis Blue
All US Army vehicles run on kerosene. This is done to shorten the supply lines and reduce the number of fuels they have to bring on operations. Can't vouch for the UK mil as i haven't worked with them for years. But every Op i have done with either US Mil or ISAF we have used Kerosene in our vehicles if getting fuel supplied by them.

We used to find the Land Cruisers with doors removed, 5 up and probably 300kgs of supplies on would top out at around 160kph. Only problem was the piston rings got destroyed along with the fuel pump and engine was killed in around 15,000kms. We did add a can of engine oil to the fuel when we could. The Rules:-
1 Buccaneer comes back alive.
2 Chicks dig scars.

GB260
Post #359859 24th Sep 2014 6:00am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Very true Buccaneer. The 'Spam' fuel was invariably of a very low quality. Their aircraft fuel (JP series) was also of an inferior quality due to the fact it never used to have any anti fungicidal or ant icing additives. We could run our aircraft for a maximum of 28 days on that stuff before it either had to be refuelled with our UK stuff or when the aircraft returned to the UK it had to be totally defuelled and then refuelled with UK grade Avtur F-34. I believe they now cut their fuel with the same additives as us.
If Kerosine was exactly the same as diesel at approximately 50-55 pence per litre why aren't we all running our Defenders on what is esentially heating oil? If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #359888 24th Sep 2014 9:20am
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RFT



Member Since: 13 Nov 2010
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 673

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Zermatt Silver
Use of zero duty Jet Fuel in a vehicle would fall foul of The Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979 (HODA) and HMRC Inspectors

Although lower in lubricity Kero is still used in many piston engines, even in light aircraft, Jet A1 is used in engines based upon a Mercedes Diesel, see http://www.continentaldiesel.com/typo3/index.php?id=2&L=1.

Ground vehicles at air bases often run on Military Spec Kero. 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper
Post #359909 24th Sep 2014 10:50am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
If Kerosine had certain lubricity and anti freezing additives added to make it 'Military Spec,' would it then perhaps make it Derv? The pumps were always labelled as such at the bases I was at. I think (but cannot be 100% sure) it was just the Ground Equipment ground power sets, air starters (LPASTs) etc. that were run on Kerosine? Chemically Kerosine and Diesel are not that far apart. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #359918 24th Sep 2014 11:30am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16808

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Certain US military vehicles do indeed have multifuel engines, perhaps the best known example being the M35 series of trucks (known widely as "Whistlers". As pointed out above, you cannot run a road vehicle on any form of untaxed fuel in the UK, so running on Jet A or kerosene etc is not an option (the penalties for running on untaxed fuel are serious).

The only real benefit of a true multifuel engine (and a useful facet of Whistler ownership) is the ability to run on "Contam", which is the contaminated fuel pumped out from vehicles misfueled at filling stations. Contam is a probelm to dispose of and disposal costs the pump-out company a fair amount, so usually they are happy to give it away to anyone who wants it. Better still, because all the relevent fuel duties have already been paid, it is fully legal to use as a road fuel.

Buy yourself a Whistler!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...witzer.jpg
Post #359919 24th Sep 2014 11:41am
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Grey110



Member Since: 20 Jun 2012
Location: Delft
Posts: 35

Netherlands 
I prefer a multifuel Tatra T813 Cool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tatra_813_KOLOS_1.jpg Martin

Previous 2003 Defender 110 Hardtop TD5
2004 Defender 110 Station Wagon TD5 - Libyan Sand
2005 Discovery 3 - V8 - Black
Post #359956 24th Sep 2014 3:55pm
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Jonesy_9203



Member Since: 05 Sep 2013
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2

United Kingdom 1995 Defender 90 300 Tdi PU Bonatti Grey
I can say with authority that the RAF run the vehicle fleet on derv.

While it is technically possible to run a diesel engine on AVTUR there are problems associated with it, namely that it causes the engine to run hotter burning out valve seats and piston rings and also tends to degrade rubber fuel seals.
Post #359970 24th Sep 2014 5:58pm
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