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borderterrier



Member Since: 09 Dec 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1677

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
pob1968 wrote:
Sounds like the private hire minicabs manual


and National Express coach drivers who gain their license on a Scalectrix track
Post #348587 31st Jul 2014 2:25pm
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3140

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
Re: What do you do....
blackwolf wrote:
... when you're towing a trailer on a generally clear motorway with three lanes, you're travelling at a steady 60mph, and you encounter a dimwit in a BMW soft-roader travelling at 52mph in lane 2. You check your mirrors etc and see that there is no traffic coming up in lane 3 (which of course you're not allowed in because you're towing) and nothing in lane 1 (which you can't use to pass because it consititutes "undertaking" and is therefore legally "careless" however carefully you do it).

Do you:-

a) think sod it, and overtake using lane 3, thus committing a traffic offence, or

b) think sod it, and undertake using lane 1, thus committing a traffic offence, or

c) think sod it, and close up the distance to less than the prescribed safety limit of two seconds and start flashing your headlights, thus committing a traffic offence since you're now tailgating, or

d) think sod it, and slow down so that you're now following the idiot in lane two at 52mph two seconds behind, but flashing your lights (which they either won't notice anyway or won't understand because they're too stupid/ignorant to know that you're not allowed in lane 3 with a trailer), in which case you're committing a traffic offence since you are now lane-hogging, or

e) think sod it, and pull in to (or remain in) lane 1, slow down to 52mph so you're not underaking, and waste quite a lot of your life due to an ignorant moron in a Beemer?

As far as I know, only one of the above options is actually legal.

This happened to me not so long ago, and I followed the clueless person for over 15 minutes on the M5 completely unable to get past legally despite empty lanes left and right. Eventually the driver did pull into lane 1, and as I passed she then accelerated to match my speed, probably unintentionally.

Maybe driverless cars aren't such a bad idea after all.


It IS permitted to "undertake" in the above type scenario so far as I know, in any case they committed the offence first off so you have had to react to what they are doing. I have had to pass on the left many time in lorries due to numpties sat at 50 in lane 2 with traffic screaming past in both lanes. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"
Post #348621 31st Jul 2014 6:06pm
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

United Kingdom 
Undertaking:
If you are in lane 1 on a motorway and you slowly catch someone up who is lane 2 doing less speed than you (but you cannot safely get into lane 3, simply creep into their blind spot. They have seen you coming (always drive with your lights on, on motorways). Said driver is now spooked by the fact that they can't see you. Be wary though, as obviously this carries the risk that they might decide for once in their life to get into lane 1 where they belong. If you have to undertake (and sometimes it really is necessary to) then floor it, to pass them quickly. Now left.
Post #348632 31st Jul 2014 7:09pm
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lambert.the.farmer



Member Since: 11 Apr 2012
Location: harrogate
Posts: 2006

England 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi PU Rutland Red
Re: What do you do....
blackwolf wrote:
... when you're towing a trailer on a generally clear motorway with three lanes, you're travelling at a steady 60mph, and you encounter a dimwit in a BMW soft-roader travelling at 52mph in lane 2. You check your mirrors etc and see that there is no traffic coming up in lane 3 (which of course you're not allowed in because you're towing) and nothing in lane 1 (which you can't use to pass because it consititutes "undertaking" and is therefore legally "careless" however carefully you do it).

Do you:-

a) think sod it, and overtake using lane 3, thus committing a traffic offence, or

b) think sod it, and undertake using lane 1, thus committing a traffic offence, or

c) think sod it, and close up the distance to less than the prescribed safety limit of two seconds and start flashing your headlights, thus committing a traffic offence since you're now tailgating, or

d) think sod it, and slow down so that you're now following the idiot in lane two at 52mph two seconds behind, but flashing your lights (which they either won't notice anyway or won't understand because they're too stupid/ignorant to know that you're not allowed in lane 3 with a trailer), in which case you're committing a traffic offence since you are now lane-hogging, or

e) think sod it, and pull in to (or remain in) lane 1, slow down to 52mph so you're not underaking, and waste quite a lot of your life due to an ignorant moron in a Beemer?

As far as I know, only one of the above options is actually legal.

This happened to me not so long ago, and I followed the clueless person for over 15 minutes on the M5 completely unable to get past legally despite empty lanes left and right. Eventually the driver did pull into lane 1, and as I passed she then accelerated to match my speed, probably unintentionally.

Maybe driverless cars aren't such a bad idea after all.


I believe that in the circumstances you have outlined we as defender drivers are legally bound to perform a pit manoeuvre on the offending vehicle causing it to crash in a ball of flames thereby removing an inferior vehicle from our road and simultaneously removing an idiot from the gene pool. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
Post #348703 1st Aug 2014 6:59am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16871

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
^^^^ Tempting Twisted Evil Thumbs Up
Post #348714 1st Aug 2014 8:28am
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dwilliams851



Member Since: 22 Sep 2013
Location: Santiago
Posts: 36

Chile 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Galway Green
I thought all that was just in Chile, didn't realise it had changed back home too. ---------------------------------------------
Past LR's
Series 2a, Range Rover Vogue, Disco 3, Disco 2, Disco 1
Defender 110 Puma
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Post #348775 1st Aug 2014 1:53pm
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Dale



Member Since: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Bristol
Posts: 79

United Kingdom 2001 Defender 110 Td5 Tomb Raider LE Bonatti Grey
Driving round the ring road (dual carriageway) and need to turn right in 5 roundabouts time, so better get in right hand lane for entire journey! Evil or Very Mad Banging Head

Lunchtime today. Single carriageway road, pull up to junction with main road. I need to turn right but can't due to traffic. Car behind mounts pavement in order to turn left as obviously life is far too short! Wing mirrors microns apart! Censored Two seconds later I was able to pull out. What was the point!
Post #348799 1st Aug 2014 3:10pm
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Paddie42



Member Since: 24 Apr 2014
Location: Hamphire
Posts: 230

England 2003 Defender 110 Td5 SW Belize Green
On the drive to work this morning I forgot that the double white lines in the middle of the road is the motor bike lane ....
Post #381332 23rd Dec 2014 4:36pm
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Projectblue



Member Since: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 1096

England 
I have a theory on this, a serious one.

Plod in the white topped hat (for those not aware, that piece of uniform indicates a traffic bobbie, as opposed to your "run of the mill" bobbie) got a lot of stick for picking on motorists. Bit odd, because that was part of their remit, but when Govt brought in the HA traffic wombles, part of the traffic job went to someone else. At the same time, many forces were pushed to put their traffic officers on to routine response. e.g. you are a copper first, and a traffic cop second.

Many people reading that may have said 'perfect sense' - works in theory right? Well the proof of why it doesn't work is the previous two pages of thread. There is very little chance of repercussion because there is little chance of being caught doing it.

I've driven from Exeter to Manchester and back and not seen one single marked traffic car on the motorways.

Now I am all for tolerant policing, and the white hats weren't known for their sense of humour, but it would shake up a lot of those drivers you talk of, if they suddenly made a return to streets. Twisted Evil
Post #381908 26th Dec 2014 12:43am
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lambert.the.farmer



Member Since: 11 Apr 2012
Location: harrogate
Posts: 2006

England 1998 Defender 90 300 Tdi PU Rutland Red
Yes but due to the shortsightedness of the political class the funding of such an idea will not receive sanction because in their logic the roads are some of the safest in the world therefore we don't need all the expense of specialist law enforcement that could be used elsewhere and reduce the expenditures through greater efficiency. The point that misses though is that the specialist law enforcement are the reason why the roads are as safe as they are. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon.
Post #381918 26th Dec 2014 8:54am
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Projectblue



Member Since: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 1096

England 
Absolutely Lambert.
Post #381927 26th Dec 2014 10:15am
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Merlin



Member Since: 30 Oct 2010
Location: Newmarket
Posts: 980

United Kingdom 
I didn't think that overtaking on the inside was illegal. The Highway Code allows for this, about three different ways. The law normally follows common sense, hence going from the nearside lane to the offside and back again, to get past some mindless individual, is more dangerous than just continuing up the inside lane.

Merlin
Post #381962 26th Dec 2014 12:33pm
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
Merlin..............Please show were it is legal according to the highway code for a driver of a motor vehicle to undertake or pass on the nearside. Please do not include the passing in queued or very slow moving traffic sections. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #382061 26th Dec 2014 5:47pm
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