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Defenderno9



Member Since: 24 Jan 2011
Location: Whitby
Posts: 17

Replacing all the rusty screws/nuts/bolts
All the usual are now rusty - door hinges, bumper, rear crossmember etc

All the advertised replacement stainless steel fastenings are A2 which I understand to be 304?

I am a big fan of 316 (A4). Whenever I have used A2 I have been disappointed.

Any reason why these replacements are A2?

Price perhaps?

Defender no 9
Post #56738 4th Feb 2011 6:10pm
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XS Pete



Member Since: 13 Jan 2011
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 632

England 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Decent A2 (304) is normally more than adequate for this type of application. A4 (316) is normally reserved for really harsh environments such as continuous submersion in marine applications. Have you had a bad experience using A2 then?

I also seem to remember that 316 isnt as tough as 304 (paricularly considering its tensile strength) so you need to consider carefully what the intended use is.

Pete
Post #56763 4th Feb 2011 7:39pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Other option would be to go here http://www.tastynuts.com/ and order what you need as they use 316 SS or if you are feeling flash you could go Titanium

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #56768 4th Feb 2011 8:00pm
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110SEB



Member Since: 29 Jan 2009
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 1444

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Glyn, were you told of that website or did you just get lucky on Google? Rolling with laughter
Post #56813 4th Feb 2011 11:20pm
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Haha.... well.... I ordered some bolts online before and 'tastynuts' came through the post Very Happy It really is nut and bolt porn thought!!!

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #56816 4th Feb 2011 11:41pm
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Defenderno9



Member Since: 24 Jan 2011
Location: Whitby
Posts: 17

There are lots of different grades of stainless for many applications but as far as I can determine (google) there is no difference between tensile strength of 304 & 316. I am not aware what grade steel is used on the hinges, crossmember etc on my vehicle but if it is mild steel 304 & 316 are stronger. If the existing screws & bolts are HT grade 5 or grade 8 304 & 316 are weaker. I assume existing are mild steel so only consideration is corrosion. Therefore between 304 & 316 there is no contest.

I have a little experience of using 304 & 316 on previous Defenders & boats and although 304 looks fine for a few weeks/months it is no match for 316 which will not alter for years.

Defender no 9
Post #56842 5th Feb 2011 7:04am
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Defenderno9



Member Since: 24 Jan 2011
Location: Whitby
Posts: 17

Regarding the link to tastynuts.

Thanks but I am not sure it is nescessary to pay those sort of prices. It would be cheaper to buy a new vehicle!

I have just compared one product.

M8 x 40mm countersunk screw.

I found these on ebay A4 stainless for around 70p with free delivery. (£3.39 for 5)

A similar product (M8 x 40mm countersunk screw) on tastynuts is £3.84 and I guess this will be PLUS delivery. Additionally they do not make clear what grade stainless they are. They might be 304. Or have I missed something?

Defender no 9
Post #56849 5th Feb 2011 8:52am
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XS Pete



Member Since: 13 Jan 2011
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 632

England 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
I think you'll find the standard bolts used are grade 8. They are certainly not plain mild steel!

I've been using these guys for a while, mainly as they're not far from me and I can just pop in: http://www.suffolkfasteners.com

They are extremely knowledgeable about steel types and fastening applications.

Pete
Post #56852 5th Feb 2011 9:21am
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Defenderno9 wrote:
they do not make clear what grade stainless they are. They might be 304. Or have I missed something?


Here it is, found here: http://www.tastynuts.com/Material_Sizing

Quote:
Stainless Steel

Fit & Forget! Manufactured from 316 Stainless Steel, which is superior in strength and corrosion resistance to the more common A2 - we are proud to offer a product of exceptional quality. Pro-Bolt is the first to provide Tapered Socket Caps, Flanged Hex Heads and Domed/Mushroom Fairing Bolts. We offer a unique material in unique head styles - and to a mirror finish, absolutely no polishing is required. Forget rough nuts and take a close look at our buffed nuts! No stamp marks in the bolt heads or cracked and grainy finishes. No matter how many dark winter nights you spend polishing mass-produced inferior quality bolts, you will never achieve the quality of finish and material that we offer. Please be aware that not all stainless steel is suitable for stress areas. However, our 316 stainless steel is suitable for Engine Casings, Fairings, Screens, Front Axle Pinch, Caliper Pinch Bolts, Caliper Mount Bolts, Footrest Hanger Bolts, Clip-On Handle Bar Bolts, Brake/ Clutch Pinch Perch, Top/Bottom Yoke Clamp Bolts. Also available are 1/4 Turn D-Ring Quick Release Fasteners, 1/4 Turn Allen key Drive Fasteners, Banjo Bolts, Bleed Nipples, Axle Nuts and Motorcycle Disc Rotor Bolts.

Material specification - 316

*

Manufacturing process: We manufacture in a single process on multi axis CNC machining centres, which includes thread rolling. Thread standards are to BS3692:1967 which is the British standard for ISO Precision metric threads. Route radii vary between 0.8mm and 0.4mm, this is the maximum that we can use and improves shear strength. Thread lead varies between K1 and K2

The head and shank designs are unique to Pro-Bolt and have been successfully tested in the field for the last four years
*

Stainless steels are iron alloys with a minimum of 10.5% chromium with other elements (Nickel, Molybdenum, Titanium, Copper, Carbon, Nitrogen) added to enhance properties such as formability and strength. But it is the chromium-rich, oxide film that gives the corrosion resistance of stainless steel. This protective film is strong and chemically stable (i.e. passive) where there is sufficient oxygen on the surface. This strong protective film is extremely thin and will usually self repair if sufficient oxygen available. Under certain conditions the passive state can be broken down and corrosion can result
*

Alloy Designations: Stainless steel 316 also corresponds to the following standard designations and specifications:

Euromorm UNS BS EN Grade
1.4401 S31600 316S31 58B 316

*

Heat Resistance: 316 has good resistance to oxidation in intermittent service to 870oC and in continuous service to 925oC. However, continuous use at 425-860oC is not recommended due to its resistance to carbide precipitation. Where high strength is required at temperatures above 500oC, grade 316H is recommended.
*

Torque & lubrication: Wherever possible, use torque values specified by your original equipment manufacturer. Fasteners in general use, please refer to the torque values listed. We recommend antiseize or copper based paste be applied to the threads to prevent galling - with the exception of bleed nipples and banjo bolts which should be fitted dry. If your preference is to use Threadlock we recommend a medium grade.

Thread Diameter 3mm 4mm 5mm 6mm 8mm 10mm 12mm
Max Torque in NM 1.73 3.57 6.90 11.1 28.30 37.60 97.50


Cost always comes into the equasion and Probolt are probably some of the finest made nuts and bolts in the world.... unfortunatly you have to pay the extra for it.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #56859 5th Feb 2011 10:17am
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Grockle



Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Peak District National Park
Posts: 2266

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
I changed all ours last week with a kit fron Stig fastners,good service and price 2.4 90 XS
1968 1/32 scale Britains 109 Pick up.
Post #56862 5th Feb 2011 10:27am
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XS Pete



Member Since: 13 Jan 2011
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 632

England 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Those titanium socket cap screws look nice. I think I have a job at work which could benefit from a handfull of those. I might accidentally order a few extras Thumbs Up

Pete
Post #56864 5th Feb 2011 10:32am
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
XS Pete wrote:
Those titanium socket cap screws look nice. I think I have a job at work which could benefit from a handfull of those. I might accidentally order a few extras Thumbs Up

Pete


Pete, are you sure there aren't 2 jobs that need it Wink Wink

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #56869 5th Feb 2011 10:47am
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Defenderno9



Member Since: 24 Jan 2011
Location: Whitby
Posts: 17

Thanks Glyn,

I always assume unless it is stated in the product description and just says "stainless" it is the inferior a2/304. Having now read their description I agree their products are top class.



Defender no 9
Post #57048 6th Feb 2011 6:42am
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Green Machine



Member Since: 19 Nov 2010
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1226

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Tonga Green
Resurrecting a slightly old thread here, but saves creating a new one. 90 is in the paint shop this week having a general tidy up. I've got a full set of stainless fixings from http://www.a2stainless.co.uk/, which I got a while ago, but waiting for the paint-work to be sorted before fitting them. I want to try to isolate the stainless fixings as best as possible in order to reduce potential galvanic corrosion. I've ordered a tub of ACF 50 Corrosion Block grease, and was going to coat them in that before fitting. Should I get some Duralac jointing compound instead? I was also thinking of getting some nylon / plastic washers to isolate the stainless bolt heads / stainless washers from the aluminium panels. Read somewhere that nylon is hygroscopic (attracts water) so maybe not the best thing? Some other plastic perhaps? What do you think?

Also - the 6 bolts that attach the spare wheel carrier to the back door are corroded (unsurprisingly). Guy who's doing the paint says he's struggled getting flanged bolts in the past (which those are)? Presumably not a good idea to replace these with stainless because of the loading of the wheel? Will I have to go dealer for replacements? Would have thought you could get a replacement on the web somewhere?

Cheers for any advice - and apologies of this is far too dull for most people! Tris.
Post #71192 16th May 2011 7:37pm
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wildrover



Member Since: 09 Oct 2011
Location: Notts
Posts: 51

United Kingdom 
Same problem as OP. Frustrating - what did you do with the bumper?

Anyone bought a SS number and if so any pictures and were you pleased?
Post #325817 24th Apr 2014 1:45pm
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